An advocate for greater restrictions on immigration says his group and others must fight racist members. Meanwhile, an advocate for comprehensive reform, says they also have extremists in their ranks.
One thing about getting those with opposing views into a room is the conversations that can develop. That was the case Thursday at the International Center for Journalists in Washington, D.C. when organizers set up a panel on advocacy work that included Roy Beck of NumbersUSA, who advocates for greater immigration restrictions, and Paco Fabian of America's Voice and Douglas Rivlin of the National Immigration Forum, both advocates for comprehensive reform.
Towards the end of a nearly two-hour conversation, the two sides opened up about playing politics and some of the challenges they face dealing with extremist members who can derail their efforts.
"I can tell you that within our organization there are real racists," Beck said.
Beck said some NumbersUSA members were angry late last year when he condemned the murder of an Ecuadorian man in Long Island, N.Y., allegedly by a group of teenagers who in the middle of a drinking binge decided to "beat up a Mexican."
"Sadly, out of 900,000 people we still had a dozen people who thought we were awful for standing up for the guy," he said. "They said 'well, he may not have been whatever, but he was illegal so he deserved to be killed.' There are people who think that.”
Rivlin said his group has dealt with similar problems.
"There are extremes in our coalition who really are for open borders; who really are for emptying the jails," he said. "And you know we get tagged with them. They get wrapped around our neck the same way the hate crimes get wrapped around Roy’s neck."
(Beck jokingly motioned like he was tugging at a chain around his neck.)
Its part of the political game, said Rivlin. And each side does its best to use the opposing groups' own extremists as an advantage.
"As advocacy groups, we're always saying we're in the middle and we're fighting for the middle. And we're always dealing with the extremes in our coalitions and always trying to characterize them as the extremes in their coalition. That is just the way Washington works."
Photo: David Paul Ohmer
"An advocate for greater restrictions on immigration says his group and others must fight racist members. Meanwhile, an advocate for comprehensive reform, says they also have extremists in their ranks."
ReplyDeleteAdd the NAACP, ACLU, and NOW to that list as well! The difference is that THEY won't admit it!
They're all over Charlotte.com
ReplyDelete"Add the NAACP, ACLU, and NOW to that list as well! The difference is that THEY won't admit it!"
ReplyDeleteWhat's extreme about these organizations? Please elaborate.
Support NC's OWN
ReplyDeleteAmericans for LEGAL Immigration
www.alipac.us
they need your support now more than ever!
Franco, folks like you, the federal government and the US Chamber are responsible for his death.
ReplyDeleteRAce is real. Get over it. For a good scientific explanation, you may wish to read
ReplyDeleteThe 10,000 Year Explosion:
How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution by Cochran and Harpending.
Generally, trying to accomodate many races into a country reduces amity and trust. Multicultural experiments like Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia show the ultimate fate of such countries.
There is no reason at all that the whites in this country should feel guilty about wanting to retain the existing cultural and racial makeup. Use of the word "racist" here is only to instill guilt in the majority because we may prefer our own people.
Thus, the co-ethnics arguing for greater numbers of their people are actually proposing a madaptive argument. "Love me and give me your posterity, or your are a bad person!" Pah!
Anonymous 4:29 sez: "There is no reason at all that the whites in this country should feel guilty about wanting to retain the existing cultural and racial makeup. Use of the word "racist" here is only to instill guilt in the majority because we may prefer our own people."
ReplyDeleteUh, if you really want this country to revert to its original cultural makeup, then all white folks need to go back where THEY came from.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWant to know an organization that has REAL racists? How about La Raza!?
ReplyDeleteOh man...I'm going to have to start reading the Charlotte Post just for a CONSERVATIVE viewpoint
ReplyDeleteEveryone is racist to some degree..they "love" the race they are from more than anyother...the US has always been a melting pot. But somehow the pot has overflowed-Disguising the foundation on which this country was started. Then there are people who don't know where they are from or who to allign themselves to. Go Alipac!!!
ReplyDeleteIf you want to see the face of modern racism, simply go to the admissions office of UNC Chapel HIll. The difference in what is required of white students as opposed to black students is stunning - the differences in SAT scores and grades is huge. Race determines who gets into UNC much more than grades. Equality? Not even close for whites today.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 3:40.
ReplyDeleteImagine the outcry if there was a "National Association for the Advancement of White People"? Or a "National Organization of Men"? As for the ACLU, if you haven't noticed that they only defend the "civil liberties" of those they agree with, you haven't been paying attention. Oh, and can you imagine having a "Congressional WHITE Caucus"?
Racism is only recognized when it's whites. THAT is reality. Everybody else get's a free pass.
Finally! Some common sense and reason in the never-ending immigration argument.
ReplyDeleteBoth extremes are wrong but, unfortunately, are the most vocal ones. In the storm caused by their bigoted, irrational rants, finding a reasonable solution to the problem becomes impossible. Perhaps this article will help find some common ground from which all sides can work together.
God Bless you all.
Ricardo Mata
Charlotte
Wow! Why would we need a National Association for the Advancement of White People? Or a Congressional White Caucus -- isn't that just the status quo as it is now? These groups are not trying to get "additional" rights over and above the white folk -- just the same - also known as "Equal Rights". And having lived in Charlotte for three years, the only "illegal immigration" anyone seemed to be up in arms about was to do with "the Mexicans". Sounded pretty close to racism to me.
ReplyDeleteLast time I noticed, Mexicans were the same race I am. White. There are mixed ones, but most are Spanish or Spanish/Indian mixed.
ReplyDeleteIf you are white and poor, I pity you. The freebies are for the blacks. That is a true statement, not a racist one.
Oh, Franco. You and others like you who write similar drivel are the ones that help fan the flames. All you *ever* write about is illegal immigration. You *never* write anything positive about LEGAL immigration. You are guilty of fostering and stoking anger against illegal immigrants.
ReplyDeleteCombine your blathering spew with the constant ignoring and lack of enforcemment of US immigration laws have led to a situation that has given a platform for racists to grow in certain organizations. Also, their racist blather starts to appeal to some who are so fed up that our LAWS are *not* being enforced and our BORDERS are *not* being protected. It's similar to people who get fed up with crime in their area, when it seems the police are doing nothing and government officials ignore them- these people then start applauding vigilantes and vigilante justice. Under normal circumstances they probably wouldn't approve of such tactics. This is exactly what led to the creation of these border groups. If our government did their Consitutional duties and *defended* our borders and law enforcement *enforced* OUR LAWS, these increasing feelings of anger would *NOT* be happening.
This Nation is being invaded and laws are being broken, and people are pissed off that nothing is being done about. When folks get pissed and angry, bad and unfortunate things start to happen. Things that would not happen if our LAWS were being enforced and our borders defended.
I am proud that our Nation allows over 800,000 legal immigrants into this country every single year- more than anyother country in the world. But, this massive flood of *ILLEGAL* immigration must STOP. We cannot afford to absorb so many poor and uneducated people, this country is broke, and can barely take care of those already here. We cannot afford to take on illegal immigrants, many of which do not pay taxes or are working with a stolen SS number or stolen identity, and who send a large portion of the money they make *here* back to their country. Allowing this to continue is insane for our country. Enough is enough... really.
Aside from that, every organization
has their share of idiots, racists and goobers. Just like this newspaper has its share of lazy reporters who add nothing positive for its readers.
TWISTED TIDINGS
http://twisted-tidings.blogspot.com/
more lopsided reporting from the observer and their shills. Why is there never a story from the observer about the drugs, crimes, overflowing ERs, or depressed wages that the aliens are causing this region. Anyone that has been to the ER lately will see that our open border policy, coupled with liberal ER care is breaking our backs. Instead we're treated to touchy feely garbage. Good job, Franco.
ReplyDelete"An advocate for greater restrictions on immigration says his group and others must fight racist members."
ReplyDeleteHow's that working out for you?
"Combine your blathering spew with the constant ignoring and lack of enforcemment of US immigration laws have led to a situation that has given a platform for racists to grow in certain organizations. Also, their racist blather starts to appeal to some who are so fed up that our LAWS are *not* being enforced and our BORDERS are *not* being protected. It's similar to people who get fed up with crime in their area, when it seems the police are doing nothing and government officials ignore them- these people then start applauding vigilantes and vigilante justice. Under normal circumstances they probably wouldn't approve of such tactics. This is exactly what led to the creation of these border groups. If our government did their Consitutional duties and *defended* our borders and law enforcement *enforced* OUR LAWS, these increasing feelings of anger would *NOT* be happening."
ReplyDeleteCombine your blathering spew with the constant ignoring and lack of enforcemment of US immigration laws have led to a situation that has given a platform for racists to grow in certain organizations. Also, their racist blather starts to appeal to some who are so fed up that our LAWS are *not* being enforced and our BORDERS are *not* being protected. It's similar to people who get fed up with crime in their area, when it seems the police are doing nothing and government officials ignore them- these people then start applauding vigilantes and vigilante justice. Under normal circumstances they probably wouldn't approve of such tactics. This is exactly what led to the creation of these border groups. If our government did their Consitutional duties and *defended* our borders and law enforcement *enforced* OUR LAWS, these increasing feelings of anger would *NOT* be happening.
Agreed Michael on every point - not that some laws are not being in forced, they are - The strategies being used might be a little wanting. The point is, what as a society are we willing to do about it.
The great majority of illegal drugs and people do NOT pass through the desert but through legal checkpoints that are duty bound to stop them. Corruption runs rampant there, yet I see no Integrity Units policing them.
I see every Pedro without a fishing permit being picked up and held for months, sometimes years in local, state, federal detention centers that are duty bound to take care of every physical need. This is one big business in the SW - Private prisons and they do have the ear of every representative around. How much is that costing us. I wonder if it wouldn't be more prudent to just let them go to take care of themselves. Stop costing us all that money?
I see federal prosecutors and immigration courts being so overwhelmed with cases like these that the cannot possible prosecute actual bad people with guns that like to use them. Again, Pedro has become the biggest political, although, not the biggest criminal justice priority in the world.
We have been treating this issue as a criminal justice one. And I understand that it has it's place. I don't want dangerous felons here like anybody else. But using our resources to detain, shelter, cloth, fed, treat every singly Pedro that is guilty of an illegal entry crime is just "loco" Most likely questions of economics present front and center. It might be time we start asking these questions and getting a few answers. How do we fix those?
Anonymous@10:58-
ReplyDeleteYou make great points, and the position we are in now is because things have been ignored and gotten out of control.
IMO, the first two places that are the most important from here on out- border protection and work place enforcemment. We spend more money/manpower protecting South Korea's border, Iraq's border, Afghanistan's border and other countries where we have troop deployments than we do on our own borders. With the enormous and sophisticated technology this country has today, we can do a better job of protecting our borders. Your point about entry checkpoints is a good one, there must absolutely be more and thorough "integrity units" to check on those that are checking on people and stuff coming across our borders. I have mixed feelings about building walls. Obviously, the illegal immigrants will just go to a location without a wall. Of course, at locations without a wall, that's where you could use technology. Could we build a wall across the whole border? Should we? It's too bad that it's gotten to this point.
The one thing that would be the most effective at stopping the flood of illegal immigrants- cracking down on those that employ illegal immigrants. I mean serious penalties for the employer. If the jobs dry up, most of the illegal immigrants will stop coming and many will go back to their country. We've seen some of that happening now with the economy losing jobs. Especially, in the construction business. No jobs and some of the illegal immigrants are going back. Although, those that aren't, are sucking up the resources of Social Services and charities. Resources that should only be for our citizens.
There's also the issue of how productive many Hispanics are at having babies. Most Hispanics are Catholic and believe the outdated and antiquated nonsense that the relics of the church tell them about not using condoms or other birth control. And that matters. Because, the illegal immigrants come here and start having babies that are then entitled to social programs and they add to the strain and overcrowding at our public schools. Some may not like what I just said, too bad. It's the truth.
We already absorb an astounding 800,000 legal immigrants every year, and some years it's a lot higher. In 2005, we took in over a million legal immigrants. That year, an extra effort was made to bring family members of some legal immigrants here.
Look at California and their extreme budget crisis. Their main problem- they try to give too much to too many people, and some of that they give is to illegal immigrants and the children of illegal immigrants.
While I do not believe in "rounding up raids", I do belive if they are caught in a crime, even a misdemeanor, and they are identified as being here illegally, they need to be deported immediately. Remember- they are not being deported for committing a misdemeanor, they are being deported because they are in this country *ILLEGALLY*. If they have children that were born here, then give them the option of taking the children with them or the children can go to a relative that is a citizen or here legally. If the parent refuses to take the child, then social services will have to. That might seem expensive at first, but I guarantee you- if the message got out to illegal immigrants that they will be deported ASAP even if they have children born here, many will give serious thought about coming here. Too many illegal immigrants know how to play the system and too many get away with it.
TWISTED TIDINGS
http://twisted-tidings.blogspot.com/
People want to talk about the truth but have not lived the truth from the other side. The organizations and policies in place to help people of color are justified in our country because of the structure and systems in place. People of color have worked hard year after year and in various cases been overlooked on purpose as far as job promotions or other opportunities for a long time. Thinking someone was let in just to fill a quota is stupid because anyone who knows math knows by the numbers that everyone can't gain entry into college anyway. The racist comments and attitudes shown day in and day out from the majority in this country who think that way by far outweigh anything by the minority. I guess that Fox News, Imus, New Yorker magazine to name a few just made mistaken errors in judgement in regards to the Blacks in this country huh? If everyone followed the Golden rule of the Bible then we wouldn't have half of these problems we face today in the USA.
ReplyDeleteWow, it's no wonder that the paper had to disable the comments links to Steve McNair articles on this website.
ReplyDeleteRace is real and if you are a white caucasoid real Latino like Franco you believe fully what the #1 alltime world best seller Book says in Genesis written by ancient jew Moses who was raised 50 yrs in the pharoahs palace as pagan but revealed as a jew and rescued 2 million slaves wandering 40 yrs in the wilderness before going 200 miles to the promised land.
ReplyDeleteFranco as an intelligent good universalist white European caucasoid real Latino accepts the fact that in the beginning 6k yrs ago there was one single human race from Adam and Eve who became wicked beyond repair and after 1.5k yrs were wiped off the earth by a great flood sparing only Noah and his 3 sons Shem Japheth and Ham and their wives and male and female of each animal in an Ark for 40 days and nights.
These 3 sons became the fathers of the new world order 3 new races on earth in Europe Asia and Africa.
They were split by the "racist" Creator into 3 races separated by great geographical distances in order to preserve all humanity from becoming corrupt as the original single human race had become and we wont get into the curse of Ham for incestuous sexual perversion but it it written as a fact. We know slavery was the only reason Africans are in America and had slavery not existed there would be no Africans in the new western world. Slavery was in essense the savior of these few Africans for sure and they were the few lucky ones.
Bottom line is by todays pc standards the Creator was the original racist so racism must be good in the fact that he separated the 3 brothers to preserve the entire population on earth from becoming corrupt again as the original single human race had become and had to be destroyed. Its the "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch" doctrine syndrone.
Racism is not a bad thing and in fact divine. Purity of ones race or flesh is required and in spirit.
If there are racists in the European caucasoid white, Asian mongoloid red yellow, or African negroid black race then so be it. Being proud of ones heritage and race is inate for all 3 races although the new world order created by the "racist" Creator who created all 3 races requires purity of each race and each race was given the power to be self contained and self sustaining making misgenation ungodly.
This is not saying the 3 races cannot live in harmony and acceptance as long as they dont genetically alter the Creators purity of race that is an abomination.
BJ
Michael said - IMO, the first two places that are the most important from here on out- border protection and work place enforcemment.
ReplyDeleteI agree these are two of the most important things. Take the financial incentive away from both the business owner and the illegal immigrant. However, my concern is that if those penalties become to sever then the economic effect will be one of hurting the local communities if those businesses are forced to closed. I haven't studied this, I am just wondering if it might have destructive downside. Perhaps allow them a way to remedy the problem somehow. But as you say, it is costing us one way or another.
I know that the Gov. of Texas is employing survellance systems at the border, putting quite a bit of money in that. But again, I have no statistics on how that program is working.
But we cannot keep taking in the flood. That is for sure. But we cannot afford to deport 12 million of them either. We simply do not have the resources to accomplish that. If an illegal immigrant commits a crime then they should be deported. The problem is that it is not a fast process. The wheels of justice move slow. Maybe that needs to change as well.
For those who stay, you might think I am crazy but If heard of this idea and the more I think about it the more sense it makes to me.
Allow them to get drivers licenses or at lease a photo ID. This would go a long way in cutting down on ID theft and allow them to purchase things like auto or medical insurance. It will allow law enforcement to know where they are and what they are doing. And it will allow them to be able to report real crime without fear that they too will be taken away.
No answers - just trying to think outside of the box a little.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the MOST racist people are minorities. They completely take advantage of everything they can. Colleges, afirmative action.. total BS!! But somehow the NAACP and gang are allowed to keep going. What a joke this is, but I'm not laughing.
ReplyDeleteI see people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as some of the biggest "racist" in America. All they do is run around the USA and help keep trouble stired up amoung the whites and blacks. I have often wonder how these guys make a living, I have never heard of them actually working for a living. Yet, they criss-cross the nation on airlines everyday. Just where do they get their money...off the backs of poor black folk? As for our borders, I think it would be fruitless to deport any of the serious crimmals, because all they will do is run back across the border in the USA. Lock them up and charge Mexico for their up keep..
ReplyDeleteif everyone wants equality then why do we need the naacp, aclu, la raza etc. and if the people that are a part of those feel the need for those groups then why can caucasians not have these type of organizations without being called racists?
ReplyDeleteIm part american INDIAN and Im called REDMAN everyday by racsist but it doesnt bother me My RACE was here first and Im proud to be part of the Land, When People tell me to go back home I say I am home my ancient family was born here and on the Cherokee reservation. Everyone is welcome here if they can afford to live here without grief
ReplyDeletesigned great grandson of the Cherokee reservation.
The native person who wrote this comment above, I truly thank you. Your people are the only people who have ever showed respect and reverence for this nation. Also, to the misinformed person who thinks Africans were not here before slavery, I have to correct you. Africans were here before Columbus and the Vikings and Africans were dealing w/ the native people in minted coin and in a civilized manner before the Europeans came over with their horrible diseases.
ReplyDelete