A congressman introduced his immigration bill and set the webosphere on fire this week.Supporters and opponents of the Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D -IL) bill were quick to join in as news continued to break and stoke interest among those on their side of the debate. The hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on blogs, emails, and Twitter started even before the congressman introduced his bill, which he called "pro-family, pro-jobs, pro-security."
Gutierrez's proposed bill would legalize undocumented immigrants who registered with the federal government, pay a $500 fine, learn English, and pass background checks, among other requirements. They would then be eligible for a six-year visa, followed by a green card.
And on Twitter, where users chatter, gossip, lecture, and opinionate in 140 character bursts, you can see just how emotional this debate will. Here are 24 selected tweets that I pulled from the 24 hours following when Gutierrez introduced his legislation.
@MicEvHill: Gutierrez begins to cite bible verses in support of his bill, saying that the immigrant community has turned the other cheek time after time 1:10 PM Dec 15th
@ALIPAC: Amnesty Legislation Filed TAKE ACTION NOW !!! www.alipac.us #AFIRE #illegalimmigration illegal immigration aliens http://bit.ly/77rO4C 1:26 PM Dec 15th
@JuanSaaa: @repgutierrez says he has 80 votes to kick start his #immigration bill, compared to 40 as he proposed the project last time. #ri4a Dec 15, 2009 01:36 PM GMT
@mkolken: @RepGutierrez Thank you for standing up for the rights of others!!! We are behind you!!! #immigration #ri4a #cir Dec 15, 2009 01:38 PM GMT
@NumbersUSA: Everyone at NumbersUSA is learning about social media! RT @insideyourhalo: @numbersusa http://yfrog.com/4apfivj 2:36 PM Dec 15th
@jrsusa: #Immigration reform debate is no place for bigotry http://bit.ly/8xHLio #CIR Dec 15, 2009 02:47 PM GMT
@RI4A: all i want 4 xmas is #immigration reform! RT @CAUSAOregon: @weareoneamerica Rally celebrate bill b4 holiday http://tinyurl.com/y9psnxs #ri4a
Dec 15, 2009 03:44 PM GMT
@ALIPAC: Immigration bill backers try again despite jobless rate http://bit.ly/8SKDaR #illegalimmigration #tcot #AFIRE 3:54 PM Dec 15th
@GrayRiv: Plz read, #digg and RT: #Immigration: The next nasty, necessary fight: http://bit.ly/6JU2A0 #RI4A #hcr #p2 #topprog #du1 #dnj Dec 15, 2009 04:28 PM
@RI4A: Gutierrez: "Immigrant blame game is constant." Enough with the scapegoating! #CIRASAP #immigration #ri4a Dec 15, 2009 06:09 PM GMT
@JessicaNWood: Really good! "An Immigration Time-Out" http://bit.ly/7XS57v #AFIRE #immigration #noamnesty Dec 15, 2009 06:15 PM GMT
@ObamaBeenLying: RT @SeniorBuzz FIGHT BACK AMERICANS! The House is debating AMNESTY FOR ILLEGALS. http://bit.ly/7gyS2q #immigration #tcot #teaparty PLZ RT Dec 15, 2009 06:45 PM GMT
@desidyke: @gaysifly It comes down to the Senate and the deals being struck between Schumer and Graham forces. Long ways to go. #immigration Dec 15, 2009 09:05 PM
@dandyxands: Petition @RepGutierrez to include #lgbt families in his #immigration reform bill! http://act.ly/1j8 RT to sign #actly #topprog #ri4a #p2 Dec 15, 2009 09:16 PM
@TRUTHINHISTORY: Tough road for immigration bill - - POLITICO.com: http://bit.ly/8ulig9 We might as well annex Mexico? #tcot #noamnesty Dec 15, 2009 09:16 PM
@NCLISTEN: Bill to provide amnesty to 11 mil illegal aliens introduced in the House http://bit.ly/6bpRfj #AFIRE #ConsNC #noamnesty #NC 11:35 AM Dec 16th
@ChronInaug09: Democrats unveil new immigration plan; GOP says it's a job killer: The following report was written by Gary Martin ... http://bit.ly/5eEV4Y Dec 16, 2009 01:41 PM
@worldorganizers: Gutierrez immigration reform bill introduced and buried in the papers and already being pronounced "dead on arrival." Inauspicious start. Dec 16, 2009 01:44 PM
@bobney: Here we go Amnesty around the corner--Dems move to overhaul immigration - http://shar.es/a8M3P Dec 16, 2009 01:44 PM GMT
@SmackdownFan: Pelosi says no vote on immigration bill til Senate passes a bill http://tinyurl.com/yelpms3 #AFIRE Dec 16, 2009 01:45 PM GMT •
@FrancoOrdonez: Is Congressman's #immigration bill doomed? Gutierrez bill not likely to make it far, but that’s not the point. #CIRASAP http://ow.ly/Mu7Z 1:55 PM Dec 16th
@angelamkelley: #Immigration Reform Will Enhance Economic Recovery: We Can’t Build a Strong Economy on Top of a Broken Immig System http://bit.ly/7xd5vS Dec 16, 2009 02:58 PM GMT •
@BayouPerspectiv: Immigration Policy Must Put the Needs of American Workers at the Forefront http://bit.ly/8YY1m8 Dec 16, 2009 03:18 PM GMT •
@llguy: Show me the federal government can control illegal immigration and then we'll talk. #politics #immigration
TWEET This...
ReplyDeleteanything short of deportation is amnesty.
disgusting.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we should show up on capitol hill, and demand to be senators, and congressman by sheer right of proximity
and this insane "debate" of illegal aliens deserving rights, send them back and make them pay for the trip.
Then welcome them back if they so choose to do so legally.
Health care and illegal alien placation will be the liberals water loo indeed.
You amnesty grovelers stink.
The law is there for a reason, what makes you are so special that you think you can circumvent it with benefits and a golden key to citizenship, when all others before you had to earn it?
E-Verify--IS--the answer to illegal immigration because it WORKS! It--MUST--and should be permanent, with sufficient penalties for violations. Blogger's have demonstrated to me that if employers explain to old and new hires, that the US government is implementing audits of companies throughout America. That any time ICE agents might appear without any warning and run an audit on any business at any time. That their 1-9's will be submitted to ICE, including photocopies of documents that--YOU--gave to us at the beginning of employment. ICE seems to be the magic word that means detention and deportation for anybody working under assumed Social Security cards, ID and other ill-gotten documentation if caught. Once alerted to this implication, those in this country illegally will be absent from work the next day. E-VERIFY IS THE ANSWER TO THE DESPERATE JOBLESS AMERICAN WORKERS AND MUST BE MADE PERMANENT. AN E-VERIFY LAW IS WHAT WE NEED, NOT ANOTHER OBNOXIOUS AMNESTY, THAT WAS NEVER ENFORCED AS IN 1986. DON'T CONDEMN US LABOR AGAIN , ENFORCE THE 1986 LAW.
ReplyDeleteWe all know the astronomical costs attributed to the illegal immigration invasion over many decades in education, health care and incarceration. So get on the phone and insist as a voter for your lawmaker to vote for
THE SAVE ACT (H.R. 3308) and be relentless.One main enforcement tools is E-Verify, that discloses and removes illegal workers from job locations. The capitol switchboard number is 202-224-3121. Also bombard the House-Senate policy makers with 28 cent postcards, to stop the open border organizations from engineering another Comprehensive Immigration reform or AMNESTY. GOOGLE and investigate the terrible consequences of illegal immigrants and families, demanding rights in the--SANCTUARY STATE OF CALIFORNIA. On the brink of bankruptcy, overcrowded schools where English is a second language, and Liberal-Marxist-Extremist politicians in Sacramento, spending the peoples money to subsidize the low incomes of millions illegal foreign nationals. EXPECT A FINANCIAL cataclysmic nightmare, if AMNESTY passes.
Bad as it is now millions more will enter America without permission causing even more chaos. Honest legal immigrants will be dumbfounded, when they learn illegal aliens will pay only $500 dollars to get legitimate status, While those people who went through the government inspection process and attorney filling fees for $2,500 dollars or more waiting for years to be accepted.
Tell them to amend the 1986 Immigration Reform Act and not another travesty that was a total disaster to taxpayers. Virginia Abernethy, Ph.D., former chief statistician for the Bureau of the Census said in September 2006 at a speech in Washington DC, that there has been a intentional undercount going on, so that the claimed figure over the 305-million population did not happen in 2005 but instead as early as-- 2001. Those who believe in America’s survival, without OVERPOPULATION as stated by the US Census bureau better read the facts, not the lies at NUMBERSUSA. Those who want details of corruption in WASHINGTON and state government go to JUDICIAL WATCH. For Overpopulation statistics, should go to CAPSWEB. Other sites of interest on Immigration enforcement is ALIPAC and AMERICAN PATROL
Anybody can copy and paste. We need to warn the general public?
or tweet this:"The violent MS-13 - or Mara Salvatrucha - street gang is following the migratory routes of illegal aliens across the country, FBI officials say, calling the Salvadoran gang the new American mafia.
ReplyDeleteMS-13, has a significant presence in the Washington area, and other gangs are spreading into small towns and suburbs by following illegal aliens seeking work in places such as Providence, R.I., and the Carolinas, FBI task force director Robert Clifford said. "The migrant moves and the gang follows," said Mr. Clifford, director of the agency's MS-13 National Gang Task Force."
As reported by Known Gangs, one of the nation's leading private organizations specializing in gangs training and information, here is some information on one of the most violent gangs that has a very high illegal alien involvement, the Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13):
In the 1980s, "A group of Salvadorian immigrants created a new gang calling themselves Mara Salvatrucha also known as MS-13. It is believed they got their name from combining the name of "La Mara," a violent street gang in El Salvador with Salvatruchas, a term used to denote members of the Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front. This was a group of Salvadorian peasants trained as guerilla fighters. The "13" was added to pay homage to the California prison gang, the Mexican Mafia.
Members of this newly formed gang soon engaged in violent criminal acts. They quickly became known as one of the most violent gangs in the area because many of their founding members had experience or training in guerilla warfare, thus gaining a level of sophistication that superseded their rivals.
Mara Salvatrucha has become Central America's greatest problem. In addition to violent acts committed by the gang against citizens and gang rivalries, the gang has even engaged in organized violent acts against the government. In 1997 the son of Honduras President Ricardo Maduro was kidnapped and murdered by MS-13 members. MS-13 members have continued to taunt Central American government officials. Members also left a dismembered corpse with a note for the Honduras president that "more people will die ... the next victims will be police and journalists." In 2004, Guatemalan President Oscar Berger received a similar messages attached to the body of a dismembered man from MS-13 members.
President Pelosi promised her Democrat cohorts that there will be no controversial legislation in 2010 b/c it's an election year. Do you really think the Dem's are going to take up Immigration reform when 2/3's of the American people oppose amnesty and support deportations......
ReplyDeleteVery simple: If we cant Impeach All Liberals now...Vote them OUT!
ReplyDeleteWe must stop this slide into crime, poverty, and socialism. If you don't contribute to this country, get out of the way so the rest of us can. We will take care of those in need, as this country always has, but we must be able to work. NAFTA was is a bust, illegal immigration continues...we've given jobs away to other countries. Stop the madness!
ReplyDeleteFranco, why do you support illegal immigration?
ReplyDeleteDo this Franco ever get any support? Why do you folks look at his side of this problem for a change.
ReplyDeleteHe wants his culture in this country because it's a better place to live. That's all.
Please, all the Immigrant (legal or illegals) raise the hand!!!. OK, are you an Indian Native? Is your name Eaglehead, Tigertail, Bullface or Snakeskin? No? Then racists take your damn illegal ancestor asses and go out of America!!! In fact, Mexican Indians have a lot more legal rights to stay in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, that all the progeny of Irish, Jewish, Poles, Italian, Britts, Aussies, German and the rest of Europeans living right now in the United States.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11 PM: There is nothing wrong with immigration. All countries need and thrive with people of different cultures legally coming in.
ReplyDeleteSALEM, Ore. (AP) - An illegal immigrant who drove away after hitting a toddler in a Salem parking lot has been sentenced to one year and five months in prison.
ReplyDeleteJuan Lopez-Perez pleaded guilty Thursday morning to failing to perform the duties of a driver in a crash.
Defense attorney Steven Walls said his client left the scene Nov. 24 because a crowd was gathering, he feared for his safety and he was in the country illegally.
Before his conviction, the district attorney’s office said Lopez-Perez told witnesses he knew he’d struck and killed a child and that he tried to hide his truck and attempted to leave when police found him on Maple Avenue in Salem.
Neither drugs nor alcohol contributed to the collision that killed his neighbor - 2-year-old Erika Rubi Meza.
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ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous @ 11:00 PM on December 18, 2009 :
ReplyDeleteClearly you were deeply inebriated when you wrote this. Either that or you have minimal proficiency with the language of the United States, aka English.
Regardless, you've failed to pick up on a subtle distinction. The outrage of citizens in the U.S. with regards to immigrants is directed at immigrants of the illegal alien variety.
It's the illegal aliens who sneak in the U.S., ignoring our laws, ignoring the legal processes that have been put in place. It's the illegal aliens that are hired by criminal American citizens (which, unfortunately, are largely Republican business owners) or leech off of well-intentioned social programs that they've been taught how to leverage for their own benefit.
It's not bad enough that we have illegal aliens breaking our laws, though. These same laws encourage them to reproduce HERE and pop out brand new American citizens. This is the first law that has to be changed... and, preferably, apply retroactively to any progeny of illegal aliens.
The citizens who have European ancestry won their right to be here through military domination of inferior cultures. That's how it works. But you'd have to understand history in order to grasp this reality.
Some of the most violent criminals at large today are illegal aliens. Yet in cities where the crime these aliens commit is highest, the police cannot use the most obvious tool to apprehend them: their immigration status. In Los Angeles, for example, dozens of members of a ruthless Salvadoran prison gang have sneaked back into town after having been deported for such crimes as murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and drug trafficking. Police officers know who they are and know that their mere presence in the country is a felony. Yet should a cop arrest an illegal gangbanger for felonious reentry, it is he who will be treated as a criminal, for violating the LAPD’s rule against enforcing immigration law.
ReplyDeleteThe LAPD’s ban on immigration enforcement mirrors bans in immigrant-saturated cities around the country, from New York and Chicago to San Diego, Austin, and Houston. These “sanctuary policies” generally prohibit city employees, including the cops, from reporting immigration violations to federal authorities.
Such laws testify to the sheer political power of immigrant lobbies, a power so irresistible that police officials shrink from even mentioning the illegal-alien crime wave. “We can’t even talk about it,” says a frustrated LAPD captain. “People are afraid of a backlash from Hispanics.” Another LAPD commander in a predominantly Hispanic, gang-infested district sighs: “I would get a firestorm of criticism if I talked about [enforcing the immigration law against illegals].” Neither captain would speak for attribution.
But however pernicious in themselves, sanctuary rules are a symptom of a much broader disease: the nation’s near-total loss of control over immigration policy. Fifty years ago, immigration policy might have driven immigration numbers, but today the numbers drive policy. The nonstop increase of immigration is reshaping the language and the law to dissolve any distinction between legal and illegal aliens and, ultimately, the very idea of national borders.
It is a measure of how topsy-turvy the immigration environment has become that to ask police officials about the illegal-alien crime problem feels like a gross faux pas, not done in polite company. And a police official asked to violate this powerful taboo will give a strangled response—or, as in the case of a New York deputy commissioner, break off communication altogether. Meanwhile, millions of illegal aliens work, shop, travel, and commit crimes in plain view, utterly secure in their de facto immunity from the immigration law.
I asked the Miami Police Department’s spokesman, Detective Delrish Moss, about his employer’s policy on lawbreaking illegals. In September, the force arrested a Honduran visa violator for seven vicious rapes. The previous year, Miami cops had had the suspect in custody for lewd and lascivious molestation, without checking his immigration status. Had they done so, they would have discovered his visa overstay, a deportable offense, and so could have forestalled the rapes. “We have shied away from unnecessary involvement dealing with immigration issues,” explains Moss, choosing his words carefully, “because of our large immigrant population.”
Police commanders may not want to discuss, much less respond to, the illegal-alien crisis, but its magnitude for law enforcement is startling. Some examples:
• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
You can cry amnesty all you want and blame the fed all you want. You want illegal immigration to stop you put the people out of business that hire them .
ReplyDeleteNOTICE HOW THE COMMENTS THAT DISAGREE WITH THE "OPEN BORDER" PEOPLE ARE "REMOVED BY FRANCO'S COMRADES". THAT'S JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SHUTTING UP THE OPPOSING OPINION!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 1:10 pm:
ReplyDeleteAre you serious? Do you really think that Zeezil, Brittanicus (the paster-etraordinaire), Ray from Concord and Anonymouses December 18, 2009 5:43 PM; December 18, 2009 6:49 PM; December 18, 2009 7:05 PM; December 19, 2009 6:06 PM; and December 21, 2009 12:12 PM are part of the "open border crowd"?
Personally, I am grateful that the Charlotte Observer allows those people with whom I disagree a place to spout their nonsense. (that was a joke--lighten up).
Seriously, if we are ever going to get to a solution to these issues, people need to read each other's positions. Personal attacks are both a violation of CO policies and a failure to counter the facts being presented.
Ad hominem attacks may be the best some people can do, but I think most people are of reasonably good will, and therefore are reasonably willing to investigate the reasoned positions of others.
Please be aware that I am using the term "reasoned" loosely. Being raised to think in the western tradition, I subscribe to Aristotle's idea that each subject has its own set of proofs.
A faith-based case is countered with a faith-based argument.
A data-based case is countered with a data-based argument.
Most of the arguments I have made in the past couple of weeks have been faith-based, and so would fully expect reasoned counter-arguments to be also faith-based.
If you read the CO comments regularly, these two traditions tend to be conflated.
Listening requires temporary suspension of belief in one's own position so we can hear the postion of the other as if it made sense.
I do not, however, think we need to tolerate hate speech and dehumanization as if it were reasoned discussion.
How do you argue with facts:
ReplyDeleteIn Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
Consistently with the medium. To do so, however, we have to treat data as data, and not as some fetishized holy icon. To treat this particular point, I need more information:
ReplyDeleteWhere are these "facts" from? A data point out of context is meaningless.
To put crime into context, please see:
“Ímmigrants and Crime: Are They Connected,” December, 2007, http://www.ailf.org/ipc/factchecks/CrimeFactCheck10-16-07.pdf; Robert Sampson, “Open Doors Don’t Invite Criminals,” The New York Times, March 11, 2006, A15.
Most contrary data on immigration and crime come from one of the
Tanton-funded outlets or copycat organizations. Please let me know where you got yours.
I just KNOW that this whole debacle has given YOU one illegal invader loving stiffie frunco!!! How about enforcing the laws already ont he books instead of making up new ones? Illegal invaders are ALL CRIMINALS. They need to return to their country f origin and if they wish to be here then go through LEGAL CHANNELS TO DO SO!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHere they come!
ReplyDeleteMexico Drug War Claims Hero's Family
More than a dozen hit men burst into a house in Mexico and executed the family of a sailor who died in last week's battle that killed a major drug lord.
Peregrino,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you support illegal immigration?
Just the facts please.
HERE'S YOUR ILLEGAL ALIEN CRIME IN CONTEXT, PEREGRINO:
ReplyDeleteMaricopa County, Arizona is the best area in the country for reliable illegal alien crime statistics. The county sheriff, Joe Arpaio, has aggressively decided to combat illegal alien crime in his county. He has partnered with federal ICE through the 287 (g) program which trains local law enforcement personnel in determining and dealing with illegal aliens. He has a well staffed Triple I Unit (Illegal Immigrant Interdiction Unit). UPDATE 2009: Due to the Obama Administration’s willful tact on reducing immigration enforcement they have harassed Sheriff Arpaio, even altering his 287(g) authority to prevent him from actively arresting illegal aliens. The effectiveness of Arpaio has likely been lessened in fighting illegal immigration as a result.
The MCAO report, released October 2008 from County Attorney Andrew Thomas features these startling numbers for prosecuted felony cases in Maricopa County, Arizona:
In 2007, illegal immigrants accounted for:
10% of sex crimes convictions
11% of murders convictions
13% of stolen cars convictions
13% of aggravated assaults convictions
17% of those sentenced for violent crimes
19% of those sentenced for property crimes
20% of those sentenced for felony DUI.
21% of crimes committed with weapons
34% of those sentenced for the manufacture, sale or transport of drugs
36% of those sentenced for kidnapping
44% of forgeries
50% of those sentenced for crimes related to "chop shops"
85% of false ID convictions
96% of smuggling convictions
Illegal immigrants make up 19 percent of those convicted of crimes in Maricopa County and 21 percent of those in county jails.
Illegal immigrants only make up an estimated 9 percent of the county’s population.
It is estimated that each violent crime cost citizens $20,000, and each property crime cost citizens $4363 per offense.
Nice job Zeezil.
ReplyDeleteExcept I never got the context for the data point I was asked about.
ReplyDeleteI learned a few things in school that seem appropriate here:
In Statistics: "Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics."
and
In Fact-based Writing: "If your mother tells you something is true, check it out anyway."
Declaring Maricopa Co. "the best source..." does not make is so. Sorry, but that is a faith-based claim, and that is not the basis of my faith. From everything I have ever read, Joe Arapiao is a self-serving publicity hound. He has made a career for the past 10 years of rounding up Hispanics, culling through the crowd to find undocumented people, and then finding what charges he can pin on them. Gee, I wonder how selective enforcement would bias statistics?
What effect have these roundups had on the safety of the people of Maricopa County?
See: Sgt Cota, president of the Mesa Police Association, on the 39000 unserved warrants that Arapaio has ignored during his crusade:
http://mesampa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/
2009/04/senate-judicary-committee-4609.pdf
(Note: the link above has a misspelled word in it. The Mesa Police Association is at:
http://mesampa.com/blog/
?tag=unserved-mcso-warrants)
I know that Arapiao claims that serving warrants is not his job (which should make and interesting campaign slogan), but I filter that piece of information through its source.
I trust his statistics as far as I trust him.
Again, you are free to worship at the church of Arapiao if you draw meaning in your life from your anti-immigrant fear, but don't claim that these are data-based arguments.
Charlotte, NC...12/23/09
ReplyDelete"Jonathan Bustillo, Dimas Guevara, and Omar Ledesma were each charged with Robbery with Dangerous Weapon and Conspiracy - Armed Robbery Business/Person at 1:30 AM. Fidel Alvarenga was charged with the same at 3:01 AM. Draw your own conclusions.":
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ReplyDeleteplease stop blaming againts of latino people,we are here for a better lifestyle and we found jobs.this have been happen forever.please remarks the good things too.why dont yousaid that we are a hard workers,goverment given us a tax payer number so finally we are paying taxes too,work extended hours and not get paid overtime,we buy houses,cars and all kind of goods ,and pay for it iclude property and car taxes,licences, plates,insurances.As you can see we are good citizents and we desrve rights too acoording to the constitution when it said " THE PEOPLE " never said legal or illegal.So please stop magnifieng isolated hispanic people events because you can find white and black trash too.stop crying like a baby end get a job like us.
ReplyDeleteTalking of garbage you can read The charlotte observer from december 27: Indian land man died after being struck repeatedly with 2 by 4s and sticks during fight.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 8:33 pm..........
ReplyDeleteYour logic is as faulty as your education. Did you not pay attention at all in school?Afterall, it costs U.S citizen taxpayers $106,000 to educate an illegal alien child from k through 12 grade in North Carolina. Of course, we "the people" never agreed nor were ever asked if we were in favor of paying for the education of those illegally and criminally in our country. We have been forced to by the decision of a miscreant liberal infused Supreme Court. Gee, if I travel down to Mexico, enter illegally and demand a job to work at will the Mexican government do the same for me and my children who will also be there illegally?