North Carolina could lose a seat if illegal immigrants are not counted. Is all this right?Critics of the Census’s practice not to ask about residency status say “no.”
John Baker, a constitutional law professor at Louisiana State University, and Elliott Stonecipher, a Louisiana pollster and demographic analyst, charge that the census has drifted from its constitutional roots and that the 2010 Census count will result in a unfair redistribution of Congress.
Since 1790(except following the census of 1920), the Census has been used to determine the apportionment of members of the U.S. House of Representatives among the states.
Baker and Stonecipher write in a recent Op-Ed for the Wall Street Journal that California could get nine House seats “it doesn’t deserve” because illegal immigrants will be counted in the 2010 Census.
They charge that several states, such as Iowa, Louisiana, and Michigan, will likely lose one seat in the 2010 reapportionment because of this.
For a story on illegal immigrants threatening to boycott the Census, we reported in May that North Carolina could lose its coveted 14th seat in the House of Representatives.
North Carolina and Utah battled after the 2000 Census when in 2002 after North Carolina won the last available U.S. House district seat over Utah. Critics said North Carolina won the seat because of the state’s growing illegal immigrant population.
Nine states in all, including South Carolina, could gain a seat based on population gains, according to a recent study by Election Data Services, a political consulting firm.
Photo: The threatened boycott of the upcoming Census by illegal immigrants is a frequent topic for Charlotte radio host Jorge Medina. T.ORTEGA GAINES – ogaines@charlotteobserver.com
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34 comments:
Here's a better idea. Why not change apportionment to being based upon the number of registered voters per state?
If you can't be bothered to register to vote, why should you be represented?
The key word in the title is "ILLEGAL!" ...What part of the word do some people NOT get?
The story shouldn't even be a story. Period.
Wow! It is truly scary now. I find it hard to believe that any illegal immigrant could have any effect on how many Representatives serve. For this to even be possible should tell everyone that Gov't has completely lost their way.
I can't believe this is even being discussed. They are ILLEGAL immigrants. They should not be voting. They should be DEPORTED!!!!!
Period. End of story. Get them out of here - now!
>> North Carolina could lose its coveted 14th seat
>> in the House of Representatives.
I live in NC and if that seat was given to NC because of illegals then I for one do not "covet" it. Maybe Bonnie & Clyde "coveted" the money they stole, too.
>> Here's a better idea. Why not change apportionment
That would require the approval of the congresscretins being elected under the present system, and ratification by states which would lose representatives if the formula for apportionment were to change.
So don't look for a change.
I would agree with the first post -- registered voters should be the ONLY factor in determining any political seat. Not withstanding the whole electoral college issue and jury-meandered districts, our nation is being overtaken by special interests that often don't have the majority's interest at heart. This is just another shining example...
does that mean prison inmates are not counted in the census in a disrict, too?
omg
I'll do all the voting for the entire country from now on, pimp slapping all who get in my way.
obama and his czars are the first to go.
illegals next, following pelsosi and frank...
Then after finding folks who appreciate the meaning constitution
regardless of their left vs. right political orientation I shall resign, reinstate due process, and not even collect a fee, or a pat on the back for my efforts...
oh yeah this panderers pacifiers column goes as well.
Look, if you're a convicted felon, you lose your right to vote. If you're not a citizen, you never had the right.
This is another example of why we don't need congress. We, as citizens of the United States have the right to vote on bills, via the internet. Maybe that would help.
So let me get this right...you are breaking the law by being here illegally, AND YOU WANT REPRESENTATION IN CONGRESS???
Our nation has gone nuts!
If you are here illegally, go home, or get legal status and pay taxes on those earnings like the rest of us! In fact...I will argue, that unless you pay taxes, you should not be allowed to vote!
Illegals are scum. They take and steal from taxayers. People like Frank trys to get sympathy for them. Ask that to the people who have lost jobs to illegals. Ask that to the women who have been raped by illegals. Ask that to the cops (like in Houston) who have been killed by illegals. Illegals are everywhere.
They get DMV drivers license in NC and SC. I guess they choose the right teller. I say deport them all. Put them in prison. Whatever is required.
They should not be counted.
They should not be voting.
They should not be here.
And I am perfectly happy for us to lose a seat in Congress because of not counting illegal aliens. The Census should ignore ALL illegal aliens.
Period.
all you whities in NC just be jellus of all the homies representin in Callie.
we all be laughing at you fools.
peace!
I cannot believe this! Why don't they just open the d#### gates and let them in and we won't need the border patrols that risk their life everyday to keep them out. Why are these people so wonderful that we have rolled out the red carpet for them. They get our benefits free ,most of them don't pay taxes, they drive drunk and kill people and we have to house them and give them a free lawyer, they bring drugs into the US, we pay to educate their kids, we have to pay for every baby they have,and we just keep on giving to these people. This is a slap in the face for us, the hard working, taxpaying americans. We are being pushed aside for the illegals and it makes me sick that I have paid taxes all these years just so we can keep them up and we can't get help if we need it. The politicians have lost their mind and we need to vote every one of them out that goes along with this. In the US we don't have anything but a bunch of crooked,greedy, self centered politicians that just want their votes and they shouldn't be allowed to vote if they are ILLEGAL. What part of ILLEGAL do they not understand. I am so mad after reading this that it makes me not want to vote again since my vote doesn't seem to be important, just so they get theirs. They don't have any rights if they are illegal, and they shouln't be counted.
According to the US Constitution, the number of representatives is based on the number of "persons" counted during the census. There is no provision for whether the person is legally in the country or not, or whether they are a citizen or not. Plus, if you happen to be overseas at the time, you're not counted, whether you're a citizen or not. That's the breaks. If you think it should be otherwise, get the amendment process underway, because that's the only way this can be changed. (Unless the Supreme Court interprets this provision into something completely different, something not out of the realm of possibility).
"registered voters should be the ONLY factor in determining any political seat."
Just what we need: more incentive for the ACORNs of the world to commit fraud...
What the story neglects to report is that the majority of non-speaking individuals living in the US refuse to participate in the census - especially if they are also illegal immigrants. The same goes for the homeless since they tend to be transient. So it is purely speculative that any House seats would be gained by counting illegal immigrants in CA.
The majority of undocumented immigrants pay taxes and few will get true representation from congress. I think they should be counted; my family came (European immigrants)in without documentation according to today's rules. It is so convinient for many to dismiss that many of our ancestors were immigrants and many were looked down by the people who came before them. History seems to be repeating itself eventhough we have more information to facilitate a more mature discussion on the subject.
I wish the observer stopped using the word illegal!
There are many purposes for the census - not just to confirm representation in government. Therefore, by trying to capture a total headcount (both legal and illegal), we understand more about the demographics of the entire country.
This makes just as much sense as the "diversity" districts we have now. Those defy logic too. Just goes to show we should never underestimate the stupidity of the majority. If the population base was centered around southern white Baptists do you think this would even be an issue. With a Democrat majority in congress and the strong likelihood these new voters will vote democrat it is just a matter of time. We have moved beyond what is good for the country and into the relm of what will I personally get out of this. Now, lets see, where is the house speaker from again....
I'll go you one better than only basing it on registered voters. How about it being based on TAXPAYERS? Maybe then those of us working our asses off while others sit on theirs and draw checks will get some representation. Those who do not contribute should have no say in how our money is spent.
Hey, Anon 9:20 -
You are an idiot! It does not matter whether your ancestors met current requirements...only that they met the standard at the time. Even still, their offspring born here get in free just as the current ones do. You really show your ignorance wishing they would "stopped using the word illegal". Changing what you call it doesn't make it any more legal. Then again that concept may be as lost on you as the rules of grammer. Your family has had how many generations to learn the language?
This country is well on its way down the sewer. The endless stream of pathetic, incredibly disgusting stories like this are stirring a sleeping lion in this country of people that are already mobilizing to set this country back in the land of common sense. If you are illegal, get the f*** out...now.
What part of "persons" do you not understand?
That's the law. If you are shocked and appalled that people are here illegally, you shouldn't be advocating ignoring the Constitution and breaking the law in the census.
We do have some precedent for counting some people as 3/5 of a person, however.
Utah has illegal aliens, perhaps not as many as NC does now. Utah's claim to taking NC's seat was that they have a bunch of Mormons, and they send their kids off to be missionaries for a couple of years, and they thought the census folk should have broken the law and counted people outside the country. The courts sided with NC.
This is funny.
Since illegals aren't voting, they aren't being represented.
"This is funny.
Since illegals aren't voting, they aren't being represented."
That's funny too, the people voting aren't being represented either.
The true issue is the need to have people in Congress representing the needs of their STATE. And additional 40K, or 100K, or 10M people place a strain on infrastructure, whether they vote or not, or are legal or not. To really understand the purpose of the census without rhetoric, try this factual site...http://www.1930census.com/us_census_history.php
I have worked for the Census Bureau for two terms and illegals in almost all the cases will comply and supply information (the Latino community is very well wired with several newspapers that provide information about the harmlessness of census workers).
I am a Brazilian born individual who has gone through the legal process for citizenship. I have been a citizen for 5 years now. The problema of illegals is very complex and it seems that most people in this forum are filtering their opinions through their very limited worldview. Most illegals work under false pretenses and false paperwork. The pay all the taxes that an American citizen pays but are unable to receive fiscal credits. When the economy was healthy, there was a need for cheap labor (which translates into bigger profits) and elected officials pretended there wasn't a problem. I believe that if you are working (that is, adding to the country's economy), if you are a productive element in your community, then the governemnt should create means for you to stay. I believe that the money that any American, foreign born or native makes, should be stay in the country. We shouldn't allow for foreign born individuals to send billions of dollars to Mexico or wherever. There should be a cap on how much money you send overseas. The people of this forum should focus on the real drain of the economy which are people who ARE NOT working, are drawing welfare benefits, getting foodstamps and using the money for food to buy drugs or new rims for their caddilacs. As long we are at it, we should work hard to erradicate all the whitetrash hillibilies who have never gone beyond a couple miles from their trailler parks, who see everyone who looks different or talks different as a great threat to our nation. The greatest threat to the USA is ignorant prejudice and people who feel they are entitled to live off the government.
An ominous pattern is slowly emerging towards an inevitable power play on pushing another amnesty through Congress. We need to take the many consequences into consideration:
1 We already had an enforceable 1986 law to stop the illegal immigrant invasion of our country, but it has been intentionally ignored? So--WHY--are they adamant in passing another immigration law?
2. Most enforcement legislation has been crushed or weakened by many of the politicians we voted into office.
3. That many of our own government members have pandered to the special interest lobbyists and not voters.
4 For decades American taxpayers have been supporting, business welfare, who have never contributed to foreign national workers. That emergency hospitals, must attend any foreign person who enters its doors, illegal or legal? ICE should be on standby and demand who that individual is working for and subsequently make the employer pay instead of the taxpayers.
5. That Democrats are downplaying that the 20 plus illegal immigrant families living here, will not have access to the health care reform package? But are not saying that if a new path to citizenship is enacted, they can automatically get health care?
6. Should a new immigration reform package is passed, what's stopping millions more poor, uneducated people storming the border.
7. Why did Sen. Harry Reid, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other members of the party try to dismantle E-Verify and under fund the border fence, so it was only a single layer instead of two tiers?
8 That E-Verification is working and working well, so no wonder the US Chamber of Commerce, ACLU, Cato Institute and a large majority of anti-sovereignty groups have been involved in lawsuits, and questionable appeasement by politicians to kill the any enforcement laws.
9. Why are we still inviting around a million new immigrants a year, when their are about 15 million jobless Americans? My health care experience was mainly in England, Germany and 15 months in Australia and prior to the mass European immigration invasion was positively first class. FIRST CLASS AND EXEMPLARY! THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS RATIONING?
Of all the states that--SHOULD--be using E-Verify, is the illegal immigrant sanctuary state of California. Illegal immigration attributed to the near bankruptcy of California and is a prime example of intentionally ignoring immigration laws.
GET RAW ANSWERS AT NUMBERSUSA Contact those in WASHINGTON! NO MORE AMNESTIES. USE ATTRITION TO DEPORT ILLEGAL WORKERS THROUGH E-VERIFY, 287 G, NO MATCH SOCIAL SECURITY LETTERS AND LIGHTENING ICE RAIDS. CONTACT YOUR POLITICIAN 202-224-3121 AND DEMAND NO WEAKENING OF CURRENT 1986 (IRCA) OTHER SITES FOR INFORMATION IS HERITAGE FOUNDATION, JUDICIAL WATCH.
DEPORT THESE DISGUSTING ILLEGAL BABY MAKING DRUNK DRIVERS NOW!!!! THIS IS INSANE, THAT THESE COCKROACHES ARE EVEN MENTIONED IN THE SAME BREATH AS OUR SACRED UNITED STATES HOUSE OF CONGRESS!!! BE A PROUD MEXICAN! BUT JUST BE ONE IN MEXICO AND GET THE HELL OUT OF THE USA!
Brittanicus, Heritage Foundation is known to be a conservative organization. To anyone who wishes to learn more about illegal immigration, I would kindly suggest you do the research yourself to come to a well rounded conclusion that makes sense to you. I am not pretending to know exactly what the answer is, but I reckon it infeasible to deport all illegal immigrants. There are simply too many people, too many families. Since most people commenting here don't seem to care about the moral implications of what the disposition of these illegal immigrant's children would be (if born here, would be natural-born, fully-fledged AMERICAN citizens), consider the astronomical cost of such an operation...I have worked in business where I suspected at least a small handful of illegal immigrants, but did not say anything because I know that they were paying payroll taxes, and since they did not have a SSN or TIN, were not and are not able to apply for a federal or state tax refund. For whatever reason, these people came to work. They are here. We must find a solution that does not include mass deportation, as there would be a huge amount of jobs vacant, which sounds great, but with such a lag in training new people, would possibly cause the employer to collapse. Just think about it. If anyone has good ideas, let us make this a positive conversation about how to make this great country better for EVERYONE.
p.s. Definitely would be nice to address people by name, instead of "Anonymous 10:17"...I assume your names aren't titles of Bible scripture ;-)
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