Thursday, June 25, 2009

The cost of illegal immigration to North Carolina


Whether the roughly 350,000 illegal immigrants in North Carolina are a benefit or burden to our state is a complicated question. I'm asked that quite a bit and there is no straight answer. There is a lot of conflicting information out there. And that's not surprising when assessing a community that does its best to remain under the radar.

One of the latest studies, by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, says illegal immigrants costs the state $1.3 billion annually. Meanwhile, a 2006 study by the UNC Chapel Hill's Kenan Institute says N.C. Latinos – of which half are undocumented -- contribute $9.2 billion to the N.C. economy.

So which one is right? I’m not going to pretend to know. They draw totally different conclusions, but both raise points worth a closer look. I'd recommend checking out the studies yourself, but here are some of the highlights. Since the FAIR study is more recent, I’ll start with it.

FAIR's study

-- $975 million annually spent on educating the children of illegal immigrants, based on an estimate of 49,800 school-age, illegal immigrants and 69,800 U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants. Researchers estimated per pupil costs of $8,150 per year for public K-12 schooling.
-- $209 million-plus in health care costs. FAIR says North Carolinians who have medical insurance also pay higher medical insurance bills to help cover the costs of those without insurance.
-- $49 million a year for incarcerating deportable illegal immigrants at state and local prisons. FAIR says the figure does not include short-term detention costs, related law enforcement and judicial expenditures.

FAIR, which advocates for stricter immigration enforcement, says its findings demonstrate the extent to which illegal immigration has become a nationwide phenomenon and a burden on American taxpayers in every region of the country.

Read the full FAIR report here.

UNC Chapel Hill Kenan Institute study.
-- $61 million spent by taxpayers to pay for schools, health care and prisons to accommodate the rapidly growing Latino population.
-- $1 billion saved in labor costs had Latinos not been around to build an estimated 27,000 houses in the state in 2004. UNC researches said as much as $10 billion in construction wouldn't have been completed.
-- $9 billion contributed to the state's economy by the Latino community via its purchases, taxes and labor.
UNC researchers, which conducted the study on behalf of the N.C. Bankers Association, concluded that Latinos “contribute immensely” more to the state's economy than they cost taxpayers. Researchers concluded North Carolina needed the low-wage labor Latinos provide to compete in a global economy.

Read the full Kenan Institute study here.

Photo: stopnlook

71 comments:

Anonymous said...

The Forgotten Issue: Illegal Immigration and Crime

Two new studies were released in October on the relationship between illegal immigrants and crime in the U.S. The first released October 1, 2008, by the Center for Immigration Studies deals with gang activity, and the second, released October 3, 2008, by the Maricopa County Attorneys Office in Phoenix, Arizona, details the percentage of crimes committed by border violators in the third largest county in the U.S.

"Taking Back the Streets: ICE and Local Law Enforcement Target Immigrant Gangs" is the Center for Immigration Studies report that offers these highlights:

# Transnational immigrant gangs have been spreading rapidly and sprouting in suburban and rural areas where communities are not always equipped to deal with them.

# A very large share of immigrant gang members are illegal aliens and removable aliens. Federal sources estimate that 60 to 90 percent of the members of MS-13, the most notorious immigrant gang, are illegal aliens. In one jurisdiction studied, Northern Virginia, 30 to 40 percent of the gang task force case load were removable aliens.

# MS-13 activity was found in 48 states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico.

# The immigrant gangsters arrested were a significant menace to the public. About 80 percent had committed serious crimes in addition to their immigration violations and 40 percent were violent criminals.

# While immigration law enforcement is a federal responsibility, ICE cannot do the job effectively without assistance from state and local law enforcement, particularly when it comes to immigrant gangs.

# Failure to adequately control the U.S.-Mexico border and to deter illegal settlement in general undermines the progress ICE and local law enforcement agencies have made in disrupting criminal immigrant street gangs.
For full report, see: http://www.cis.org/ImmigrantGangs

For VIDEO summary of the report: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTRvXYuBgYQ&eurl=http://www.cis.org/ImmigrantGangsVideo

The MCAO report from County Attorney Andrew Thomas features these startling numbers for prosecuted felony cases in Maricopa County, Arizona:

In 2007, illegal immigrants accounted for:

10% of sex crimes convictions
11% of murders convictions
13% of stolen cars convictions
13% of aggravated assaults convictions
17% of those sentenced for violent crimes
19% of those sentenced for property crimes
20% of those sentenced for felony DUI.
21% of crimes committed with weapons
34% of those sentenced for the manufacture, sale or transport of drugs
36% of those sentenced for kidnapping
44% of forgeries
50% of those sentenced for crimes related to "chop shops"
85% of false ID convictions
96% of smuggling convictions

Illegal immigrants make up 19 percent of those convicted of crimes in Maricopa County and 21 percent of those in county jails.

Illegal immigrants only make up an estimated 9 percent of the county’s population.

It is estimated that each violent crime cost citizens $20,000, and each property crime cost citizens $4363 per offense.

All the more a concern is research that finds the likelihood of an illegal immigrant being incarcerated grows with longer residence in the United States and that the U.S. born children (considered citizens) of illegal immigrants are dramatically more likely to be involved in crime than their illegal immigrant parents. For instance, native born Hispanic male high school dropouts are eleven times more likely to be incarcerated than their foreign born counterparts.

Anonymous said...

If they had rewards for turning these illegal immigrants in, I'd become a bounty hunter making good money. I know where hundreds of them live and hang out here in Charlotte. Several in my apt. complex. They usually live 5-6 male adults in a one bedroom.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Unfortunetely the days of single men working here are over (one might argue the net effect is positive). Majority of them have large families and take adavantage of all social programs. Moreover, the UNC's estimate is weak especially when it comes to the estimates of money saved in construction. One might turn the table on them and say that more than a billion of dollars in taxes has not bee paid to state coffers. And now everyone's taxes will go up.

Anonymous said...

We need more documentation for public assistance. They need to provide social security #'s for everyone on the public health insurance. No #= No $

Anonymous said...

So what the blog author is finally saying is that

if everyone quit paying taxes (killing the free ride) all these illegals would go away ...eventually......wouldn't they?

Anonymous said...

I'm just shocked that Franco actually used the word "illegal" in one of his posts. It seems he DOES understand that there are such things as laws. Perhaps for an encore, he will acknowledge that people should be PUNISHED when they break the law.

Anonymous said...

Amazing that in all the news stories about California’s budgetary crisis, political correctness, I gather, has kept anyone in the national media from mentioning the prime cause of the problem.

Any state that has large percentage of its population, mostly low income upon arrival, there without following proper immigration processes puts enormous duress

to it social services infrastructure.. As illegal immigration makes it way across the sunbelt in increasing numbers, other states can expect growing financial pressures.. Eventually , as states start to come forward with admissions of budgetary shortfalls..there will become a point where the cause and effect will have to be discussed. If its is in fact not political correctness, it must be some pretty shoddy investigative journalism. Here in Charlotte, our schools are now 19% Hispanic in 2009. What % is illegal I dont know..but I would guesstimate the majority. I know there are only 70, 000 h1 visas issued a yr nationally...Fast forward 10 yrs..what will that % in schools be.. 28%? 35%?. Three yrs ago we were forced to pass a 550 million dollar school bond package to address school overcrowding or the stress on the cops.., In the observer, all the stories surrounding said overcrowding, its amazing how the root cause was not a pertinent factor worthy of mention. Carolinas medical Center, as well as other local health care facilities, are experiencing enormous duress from individuals who have moved north to our region with the intent of letting someone else pay their tab. )cont on next blog)

Anonymous said...

(cont)
A cop friends tells me he is almost positive that one country, Salvador or Honduras, i cant recall which, has, he feels, emptied their prisons by virtue of the pattern of criminals from below the border here in Charlotte. It happened in 1980 when castro emptied the prisons during the 1980 Mariel boat lift, so its not that implausible. Data shows The majority of Hispanic students

are under the free or assisted lunch programs.. so in one school near us, which has 430 hispanic students, an abnormally high amount..thats 430 folks whose lunch is paid for by someone else.. thats one school, one day, one town.. and somehow this empirical data the observer feels is irrelevant to the readership.. is it that they feel we should not know?..is it that they feel it will create a negative sentiment? are we we too fragile? One can only guess. but one must wonder whats happens at the observer daily staff meetings.. When Data like that arises.. do they openly nix it? do the young reporters look at each other and think yikes... Its amazing that some there dont harken back to their days of journalism school and think..hey this isnt right..were, with due respect, lying , if you will ..plain and simple..to further an agenda.. its disappointing....Observer Columnist Mary Newson last week cited anti illegal immigrant folks..as saying something like "send them all home, or jail them all..or something like that.(in fairness i cant recall). To cite the most extreme and unreasonable opponent is so Juvenile..so unprofessional..it makes one wonder is this the thought process of those that favor open borders..I was taken aback because i thought i was reading a high school columnist, if thats her reasoning.. is this the thought process of those in the media? In fairness no Local TV reporter at BT, NBC6, CH14, Or wsoc seems to deem the cause and effect

as it pertains to cost, as newsworthy.. Does no young reporter in those newsrooms think the busses that arrive daily from latin america on eastway and tryon arent worth covering? When a population is increased by 20% in one fell swoop.., and the cost are proportionately higher, is it not pertinent to cite the source? The 80k hispanics they cite officially in charlotte is so far outdated, its laughable.. When you think that so many are in just one town, its startling to think of how many are here nationwide..and moreover why no reporters ever do stories about how some areas in latin america are becoming ghostowns..? Not good copy? maybe if the obsever cvan throw the word "diversity " in there somewhere they could run with it.. dream on..

As we move forward in charlotte, say 15 yrs one can only speculate

what charlotte will be like.. Will we be on our 3rd school bond package.?. and two 500 Mill packages due to overcrowding solely because central and latin america are here illegal. If we were in there shoes..we would do same.. Why not move somewhere where the govenment will pay my maternity costs, pay for that surgery that has been needed for yrs to adjust a vertebrae issue, my mother in laws health care costs as she become disabled..?....) (cont on next )

Anonymous said...

why not move to a county where they bend over backwards to accommodate me.. where if anyone stands up and says hey 30 million is enough lets cool it, they get vilified by the likes of Keith olbermann or the charlotte observer.. Why not move to a country where i will not be charged any surcharge on my money orders back home, nor will my employer be taxed anything additional, unless he has impervious land and we can up the stormwater tax.. why not move to a country where i can START OVER and ignore my rap sheet, and if caught doing something illegal i can simply move unfettered from community to community for every alliance that American law enforcement coordinates with one another to track immigrants is shot down by the newly seated government.. Why not move to a country where president Clintons welfare reform has been gutted by the newly seated president enabling me to bring my family north with no limits to generational welfare.......Yet every state and municipality is under enormous financial duress because of their presence.. One state, California, has imploded and oddly the main cause fails to make itself part of any news story.That state has more people in the wagon being pulled than folks doing the pulling.... As of 2008 89 California hospitals have closed due to the strain of non paying customers.`CNN in fairness ran a story in April that Mexican cartels have taken up residence in the northern suburbs of atlanta and now comprise 21% of the population.. CNN headline news ran a story A major Salvadoran drug dealer was arrested in California (CONT on next blog

Anonymous said...

(cont)
A major Salvadoran drug dealer was arrested in California
and he stated his destination was Charlotte NC. Somehow this failed to make our daily paper. Many Traditional proud charlotte neighborhoods have lost so much of their value as a resort of rampant illegal immigration.. a university of texas study in 06 or 07 stated that approximately 75-80% of illegal immigrants dont have high school educations.... It is fair to assume these individuals will cost our infrastructure or social services? Of course..look at California..

So looking forward for our once proud city, will 1 in 3 students in our schools be here illegally detracting from out teachers time? At that point does the Charlotte Observer slide that tidbit into a story? What will those lunches cost us EVERY SINGLE day..? Mrs Newson, am i a hatemonger for being concerned about that? What possible reason will there be for the balance of latin America NOT to come to Charlotte and the united States? Should i be concerned that the lines to private schools are out the door, paid for mostly by equity lines from folks that can ill afford it? Am i racist Mrs newson for griping when i have to pay for another school bond package when im forking out moneys for private schools? Will my kids kids be able to safely use our own public schools ? Will we have to pay protection money to MS 13 to walk the halls? When im paying for my visit to the emergency room at CMC Pineville when those to my left and right are letting me pay their tab.. am i hatedul mrs newson for bring perturbed about that?
At what point does our country put political correctness aside to ask ourselves what the wholesale relocation of latin and central americas poor to to our country affects my country.? Look at what they are leaving..thats what is being brought here.. When that 30 million turns into 70 million, and socialized medicine is the biggest expense to out federal government, at that point do the politically correct, say hey how did this happen? Whether your for open borders or against it, a reasonable person must admit that eventually political correctness has to be put aside and hard decision must be made.... decisions that will bring the wrath of the likes of NBC news and the charlotte Obsever..
When I watch HBO's JOHN ADAMS and especially the movie SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, i get emotional when i think that my dad and step dad fought for is being destroyed before our eyes..This isnt a plicy argument that will come and go.. this isnt an immigration issue.. its an invasion.. Sadly, we cannot unring a bell

Anonymous said...

LEGAL VS. ILLEGAL....

Well, this spells it out for those individuals who feel sorry for illegals!

You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2 parents, 2 children and live in California.

"Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year

Now take 30% away for state federal tax

Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year

Jose Illegal pays no taxes...

Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month; $12,000.00 per year

Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year

Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare

Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month; $12,000.00 per year

Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare

Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month; $12,000.00 per year

Joe Legal is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00

Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy

Jose Illegal pays rent $500.00 per month; $6,000.00 per year

Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch.

Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay

www.bobbielittle.com

Anonymous said...

In the last week we have heard:

that The governor wants to raise taxes to alleviate school budget shortfalls,
2 the possible elimination of middle school sports , and that teachers 3 will be laid off to save money,

Since all issues are the direct result of the rampant migration northward of Latin Americans, its time some states and municipalities considered looking to the Federal Government for funds for it is a direct

result of their neglect of their constitutional duty to protect the border. Futile as it may be its time to ask, then insist, and then get the attorneys involved. They cannot expect any state to have a 20% increase in school population in a short period of time without thinking there will not be some downside.

funny how the investgative journalists at the observer and eben local TV stations have hard time correlating the 2.. political correctness is firmly entrenched..
what will cms schools be in 2015 35% illegals? there is NO Reason for anyone south of the border not to come north...

Sammy said...

The UNC study is a complete joke that doesn't count many of the costs that illegals burden us with -- many posts have already documented many of these missing costs.

Given that studies almost always give the result that the financers of the study are looking for why don't we just use some common sense...

Is a group of mostly poor, undereducated, low-skilled, English-challenged lawbreakers going to contribute more in taxes and revenue than they take from a society where activist judges have mandated a complete buffet of taxpayer financed goodies. Regardless of how hard working and motivated these illegals may be they simply don't possess the skills and income to contribute more than they take.

Anonymous said...

we alos hear.. jobs that we dont want to do... when a canadian employer wants to hire a foreigner

they must prove that there is NO canadian that can do the job a taxing process. with unployment here in US bad, and worse in african american conmmity wouldnt it be LOGICAL to have employer have to look at american first?? or too logfical ??!

everytone pays for this invasion - stormwater runoff and taxes on the franchose fee on a utlity bill..yet employers of aliens and the aliens themselves pay NOTHING no infrastructure tariff NO fee on money order heading out of states.. unbelievaqble we need a coup in this country literally only doewnside is tyhe media would lose ist freedom and we would never get it back.. what a way to destroy a country so sad

Anonymous said...

I'm totally anti-illegal immigration. I have no problem with anyone playing by the rules. It occurs to me though in reading all this that the pro illegal crowd is really unknowingly (hopefully) setting us on a dangerous path. Look around in history when groups have prospered off the backs of others. When government services run dry and the legal working citizens are fed up there is always a backlash aimed at those thought to be the cause. If our government dealt responsibly with this issue and fast, the tensions brewing would ease. I see no sign of that happening and I shudder to think what could happen down the road when frustrations come to a head. It really does both sides a disservice to let things continue as they are. Of course if we wait long enough for all the anchor babies to be voting age, law abiding tax paying citizens will be run out all together. I think we're already seeing what happens when those who don't contribute start showing up to the poles. Look at the mess we're in now and getting deeper with every passing day.

Sammy said...

"$1 billion saved in labor costs had Latinos not been around to build an estimated 27,000 houses in the state in 2004. UNC researches said as much as $10 billion in construction wouldn't have been completed."

Saved? Those savings represent lost wages to the native born that would have done those jobs had the illegals not been around. So instead of employing the native born to do these jobs at a little higher rate we instead probably had to pay them welfare and/or deal with the effects of lower income for this group.

In retrospect, had that 10 billion in construction not been completed it may not be such a bad thing. In the same way that the cheap and easy qualifying mortagages of those years paved the way for today's disaster, the overbuilding that these illegals helped to make possible is now a major problem with all of the unsold, and foreclosed homes.

Anonymous said...

Illegal Aliens are the new slave labor and are being exploited by our Government and big business.

We have an open boarder policy to gain cheap labor - during 2 wars.

CMPD Officer's are not allowed to ask the question during a traffic stop or to a suspect "are you in this County legally? It is a don't as don't tell policy.

In the late 70s I could call a temp agency during the summer when I was off from College. I could get work unloading trucks or doing construction in most cases the next day with no experience. These Temp agencies paid (in 1979) about $14 to $16 an hour for someone strong who was willing to work hard.

During that same time I could have gone to work in a textile plant full time with no education and made 35K starting salary. After a year full benefits, vacation, sick leave and a 401K. If I worked really hard then in a few years I could be making 45Kish.

Currently we have contractor Banking jobs which are listed on CLT dot com such as; IT Business Analyst, Contractor - no time off or benefits - required 4 year degree MBA preferred, 5 to 7 years experience starting salary 40 to 45K.

The media reports that 60% of all Americans are for amnesty. I know over 100 folks in CLT growing up here and non of them are for any type of amnesty and in fact all are against Illegal Aliens and want deportation yesterday.

The argument that is given by our government and scare tactics by our (profit based media) is that it will cost Billions to deport them.

During the 1980s there was a thing called an I9 forum. This required 2 forms of government issued IDs to be on file for every business on-site. If the business failed to have them on-site then it was a felony.

The only thing we need to get them out of the Country is allow Police Officers the ability to do their jobs and at least be able to ask if your an American. Bring back the I9 forums and make it a Felony for anyone to hire or house an Illegal Alien then the problem will be solved with very little tax dollars.

Yes our Government does make a lot of money. Using fake IDs they don't fill tax returns so our government pockets that money. Of course my bet is that cash is still being used thus no taxes are being collected from these folks who are driving our wages down.

Now Illegal's can get credit cards, buy cars, rent houses and apartments (which Police are told to leave alone for out of date inspections in Mecklenburg on the don't ask don't tell policy.

When the so called "Free Trade" and NAFTA came about in NC our government dropped INS down to one Agent for the entire State thus there was no enforcement of Federal Laws (which our government wants to change before we catch on).

PAC funds controlling DC.

This is in part the reason we are in the economic situation we are in today.

Then the tax free out-sourcing from the Banks sending IT jobs to Countries whom have an entirely different value system such as rights for women, child labor etc. for the profits of big business who now controls DC pretty easy to connect the dots.

Or ask yourself which State has the most Illegal's and which State is in the most trouble? Pretty sure it is CA?

Remember, what brought Rome down to it's knees (According to Thomas Cahill) is the rich only acted like they paid taxes as our large corporations do today and the Barbarians were,,,, Illegal Aliens. When the money started running out from the tax burdens of the middle class and poor and the water and food became scarce and they could not pay their Armies then it was ransacked.

Folks don't want to admit this is where we are heading as it is scary so most don't even want to mention it. If we don't start to take action we will fail as a Nation in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

4:59-
Your last paragraph reads as it we aren't already swirling around hte drain. I think we spiraling and picking up speed. Too bad noone in a position of power seems to see or care.

Anonymous said...

Deport ALL these criminals and then we will have proof first hand which study is correct. Anyone who says they DON"T cost us anything are d--- LIARS WHO GAIN FROM THESE CROOKS TO BLEED US DRY!
WE SHOULD ALL JUST REFUSE TO PAY TAXES; THERE AREN'T ENOUGH JAILS FOR US ALL!

Anonymous said...

This is a ENFORCEMENT problem. When the illegals gather for a rally why not have a army of law enforcement there to make arrest.

I'll guarantee you if NORML held a rally in Marshall Park the patty wagon would be waiting for the first person that lit up.

ENFORCEMENT is the PROBLEM.

Grimace said...

"Researchers concluded North Carolina needed the low-wage labor Latinos provide to compete in a global economy."

I would imagine that the antebellum plantation owners probably used much the same argument in justifying their use of slaves. Except when you look at it, using illegals is a lot better financial deal than owning slaves.

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free -- or at least in the case of the illegals at a steeply reduced price. In other words with slavery you own and have to pay for all of the costs for your labor, as opposed to illegals in which you are essentially only paying for the actual physical labor (at reduced prices) and disbursing all of the other costs (housing, health care, education, etc.) onto the taxpayers.

Caped Crusader said...

All you've done with this entry is give the bigots an excuse to publish their hatred and ignorance. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of economics understands the financial disaster that would result from the removal of undocumented immigrants from this state. The people who scream about, "sending them back," have no business sticking their noses into the discussion, because they have no problem reaping the benefits of the cheap labor force our nation has imported from Latin American countries. These bigots, most of whom pay barely any taxes in the first place, rage over money they believe is being stolen from them, all while saving considerably more annually than the entire sum of their tax obligations for the year. That's not even mentioning all the money people who use falsified documents pay into Social Security, even though they'll never see a dime of it. What you have are a bunch of people who'd be screaming White Power! if they thought they could get away with it.

Larry said...

If you put a entire school of banking and pay for it you often get the right reports from the college you are located in.

Such is the case in Chapel Hill.

They have the good fortune of having this very influential group and the double pleasure of having them endowing the school with wads of cash and support from the influential members of their Banking Group.

Life is good at the top, at lest the little views we get to see when we average tax paying people can.

Anonymous said...

I noticed that the stats that Franco cited from the FAIR study was basded on *illegal immigration* while the Kenan study was based on *latino* contributions to the workforce, These two studies are like comparing apples to oranges. Franco clouded the water rather than bring any clarity to the issue.
Being latino is not synonymous with being undocumented. Regardless of the size of the proportion, all undocumented immigrants are not latino. So the Kenan study isn't really dealing with undocumented immigrants.
The Blog is misleading because the reader is led to believe they are both studies about illegal imigration, but the statement Franco makes about half the latino population being undocumented is also misleading. If the FAIR study says *illegal immigration* causes $1.6billion in losses and *Latino* workers add 975,million to the economy, then the question Franco asks which study is right is not a fair question at all. One could take the FAIR study at face value and assume the illegal poulation of the state costs 1.6 billion. The additional $975 million citend by the Kenan study, added to the economy by the *latino* poplation would more likely than not be a result of legally documented latino people. The remaining 50% that are undocumented likely contribute significantly to the $1.6 billion the FAIR study reports. So Franco's coment which one is right is mislleading. They measure totally different factors. They could both be true The Kenan study might even support the findings of the FAIR studys $1.6 billion loss.

Anonymous said...

"I noticed that the stats that Franco cited from the FAIR study was basded on *illegal immigration* while the Kenan study was based on *latino* contributions to the workforce, These two studies are like comparing apples to oranges. Franco clouded the water rather than bring any clarity to the issue."


we noticed the spin as well.

whats up with that franco?

Anonymous said...

Dear Caped Crusader.
I am sorry to inform you that all you have done with your entry is show your ignorance. Many people like myself understand undocumented immigration quite well. We also have a well-rounded understanding of economics. I also understand national security, something you failed to mention at all.
You stated "What you have are a bunch of people who'd be screaming White Power! if they thought they could get away with it."
Many Hispanic and Latino people are "white" and these are not racial designations, rather ethnic and national in nature. The National Organization of La Raza clearly states both of these points on the "about us" link on their website.
I am a white latin U.S. citizen. I only referring to myself as white and latin to illustrate how misinformed you are. Otherwise I typicaly make no mention of my ethnicity, as I just consider myself a U.S. citizen.

More ignorance: "The people who scream about, "sending them back," have no business sticking their noses into the discussion," - Do you mean citizens have no business sticking their noses in this? Wow. Talk about ignorant.
I also find it ignorant, insulting, extremely over-generalized, and extremist that you use terms like bigots and "white power" and say anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing about economics.
I disagree with you and I understand economics very well. I am white. I am latin. I am a U.S. citizen. I have no hate for anyone, in particular other latin people. I have a very good understanding of economics.
The financial disaster you speak of is not as clear as you state. In fact the blog cites a FAIR study that estimates $1.6 bilion loss as a result of undocumented immigration.
Please keep your extremist inflamatory statements to yourself. There are extemeists on any issue. One extreme views and comments do not justify the other extreme views and comments. Just like the "bigots" who write insulting comments about latin people and/or undocumented immigrants should hold their tounge, so should you

Anonymous said...

Illegal immigrants are about 5% of the Charlotte area poplulation but are responsbile for 20% of the DWI's in the area. What's the cost of that? Or, is that a bigoted comment, Caped Crusader?? How is upholding immigration law bigoted? Typical liberal retort.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Caped Crusader, you couldn't have said it better..
I used to get pissed at all these hate posts, but for what I see today, a lot of them live in the same apartment complex or Latino neighborhoods, which means that is all they can afford; the truth is all of you are mere resentful white trash!! I laugh at you!

Anonymous said...

The more we become a nation of illegal immigrants, the deeper we fall into anarchy.

Anonymous said...

After careful review, anyone with a even a modicum of logic can come to no other conclusion: illegal immigration must be halted, illegal immigrants here now must be deported and legal immigration needs decreased from the approx. 2 million allowed in per year currently.

Please review the following report on the FISCAL COST OF IMMIGRATION by economist Edwin Rubenstein released in April 2008:
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf

A partial summary of the report:

The impact on 15 Federal Departments surveyed was: $346 billion in fiscal related costs in FY 2007.

Each immigrant cost taxpayers more than $9,000 per year.

An immigrant household (2 adults, 2 children) cost taxpayers $36,000 per year.

Legal immigrants were not separated out from illegal immigrants for the fiscal impact study, but if they had been, the fiscal cost per ILLEGAL immigrant would be even more shocking than the figures quoted above.

The most extensive and authoritative study, prior to economist Edwin Rubenstein's "The Fiscal Impact of Immigration" (April 2008) , is the National Research Council (NRC)’s The New Americans: Economic, Demographic and Fiscal Effects of Immigration (1997).

The NRC staff analyzed federal, state, and local government expenditures on programs such as Medicaid, AFDC (now TANF), and SSI, as well as the cost of educating immigrants’ foreign- and native-born children.

NRC found that the average immigrant household receives $13,326 in federal annual expenditures and pays $10,664 in federal taxes—that is, they generate a fiscal deficit of $2,682 (1996 dollars)per household.

In 2007 dollars this is a deficit of $3,408 per immigrant household.

With 9 million households currently headed by immigrants, more than $30 billion ($3,408 x 9 million) of the federal deficit represents money transferred from native taxpayers to immigrants.

Our national immigration policies have to work for the United States. While improving the plight of the world’s poor is a laudable goal, the finite resources we have available to fulfill that goal would be swamped if there wasn’t some orderly and manageable system in place to limit entry into the United States to what this nation can actually support. The more illegal aliens that are permitted to subvert the immigration system, the fewer immigrants we can accommodate who might actually produce a positive benefit for our country.

Anonymous said...

From what I can read and hear on the streets,there is revolt brewing against our government.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

As someone who used to work with Scott Gardner, when I think of his brain-damaged wife and two children who are minus parents, the costs of illegal immigration are way too high.

I graduated from UNC, but the Kenan report is full of it.

Anonymous said...

"What you have are a bunch of people who'd be screaming White Power! if they thought they could get away with it."

Black Americans are the group that has been most impacted by this illegal invasion through lost wages. That report the Observer did awhile back about the chicken factories illustrates this perfectly -- those were jobs that were predominately done by black Americans previously.

Sammy said...

Anonymous at 8:05

"Our national immigration policies have to work for the United States."

What are you crazy! You mean we should have policies that actually work for our country and our people?!? No, no, it should about what is "fair" and what adds diversity, right?!?

Good post -- our immigration policy both legal and illegal is a complete mess. We need to severely bring down the numbers of both and have higher standards for the few legal immigrants we allow here.

Anonymous said...

"Whether the roughly 350,000 illegal immigrants in North Carolina are a benefit or burden to our state is a complicated question." The first sentence of the article makes the whole article irrelevant. They are here ILLEGALLY. That's like pondering if shoplifting is a benefit or a burden, because it could benefit a buyer on ebay, when the item can be sold very cheaply. It's still ILLEGAL.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"Unfortunetely the days of single men working here are over (one might argue the net effect is positive). Majority of them have large families and take adavantage of all social programs."


Don't look now, but that applies to people born in this country, but aren't Hispanic or Latino.

Anonymous said...

well at least illegal loving franco admitted they are ILLEGAL. HE has never met an illegal he did not want to stay here.I would like to start a petitoin to send franco back to HIS ancestral homeland to get a taste of life there. tHE KEY POINT IS they are criminals by virtue of being here. Each and every one is deserving of deportation. If they return they should be executed on the spot.

Anonymous said...

Before you start your 'petitoin', perhaps you should learn how to write in English. Your statement concerning this reporter “never meeting an illegal that he didn’t want to stay here” is comical at best. What's criminal is that readers on this blog have to sift through comments like yours that lack any substance at all. Try sticking to the issues. Moving on..have we forgotten, that George W Bush put a plausible Immigration bill before Congress prior to his departure? The result? Nothing. Why? Because both Democrats and Republicans couldn’t come to an agreement. If you want to petition someone to actually do something, you should probably contact your local Congressman or Senator.

Anonymous said...

The libs have this right where they want this.

You have millions of people here stealing our jobs,hailed as cheap "do anything" labor (uh that would be SLAVES)and NO ONE enforcing the damn law.

So instead of treating them as any other country would we leave them here (reminds me of a vine you see on a tree or pretty plant left alone as it slowly strangles the life out of it)anyhow so we leave them here without major enforcement and we TALK about it and we talk about it.The whole time the libs are trying every backdoor method they can dream up to get these people in here for big business and a killer voteing base and the liberal media talks non stop about these people and how bad they have it while legal Americans and their families are suffering as a result.

These people will live in cardboard cities over there. Do you REALLY think it will ever get so bad here they would actually leave without HELP? That would be a hell NO, so quit dreaming.Sex,drugs,our cash and they have made their own little Mexicos every where they squat.

There needs to be a method to sue someone for dereliction of duty for not enforcing our laws so they will do the job of getting these thieves OUT OF HERE!!!!

I am sure many want to enforce our laws but are told to look the other way while we are busy being "sensitive" to the very people who are robbing our country blind and steering us straight into 3rd world country status.

But what will we do? Type,write,call,complain amongst each other until that vine curls around the neck of our economy and THEN even the libs might say "WHAT HAPPENED ?" But by then they will be "legal" there will be anti hate laws, groups to protect them etc etc and it will be too late. Oops already have all those, just need the amnesty and we have that all except for it being written down already thanks to our liberal buddies and out spoken masses of illegals.
Going to hell in a handbag

NCGirl said...

Its a sad day when a grandmother and mother raised her kids by herself, worked every day of her life in a laundry and furniture factory and when she needed help to buy food for herself when she retired, Social Services was going to give her $12.00 a month.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for illegals and they should receive NO benefits.

Anonymous said...

Stop ALL services to illegal immigrants. Then check the state budget and see how much extra money is available for Americans and legal immigrants. Illegals are not only the downfall of this state but the nation as well.

Anonymous said...

www.bobbielitte.com said it all when it comes to what the legal tax payer contributes to the state and what the illegal man takes from the state. I am sick to death of doing without, seeing children doing without while these illegals buy more and bette food, wear more expensive and nicer clothes, get illegal children go to the college free that I have to pay for. 99.9% of all the gangs in the U.S. today are hispanic gangs who kill just for the heck of it. Send them, their diseases and their drugs back to Mexico.

Anonymous said...

The truth of the matter is that for all the ballyhooing about illegal immigration by the anons here, the problem is not going away.

You can point fingers all day long and whine and cry all you want. It is a social issue that NC citizens must deal with.

Treat it like the "war on drugs", build more prisons and pay for that. More will come. Build one fine fence like they are doing in Texas. More will come.

We had better find a way to work this out together and fast. I believe their are enough examples of doing it the wrong way to fill whole libraries at UNC.

Make no mistake - these people are your neighbors, friends, and coworkers. And they are here to stay.

Anonymous said...

They cost lots more that they bring. I am a member of FAIR, and am aware of the facts.

They have more rights that I do, and I am a LEGAL American. Go figure.....

Anonymous said...

Guess we have all overlooked beyond the financial, economic and social burden of the illegal alien. What about my safety and yours? NC's involvement in 9/11 and their lack of movement on bills to stop illegal alien use of our state is an acceptance of allowing illegal aliens to terrorize our legal residents and citizens of state and our country. I have not forgotten 9/11 but our state appears to be turning a blind eye to all the costs. There are no pluses with illegal aliens. Get them out of our state. And for all of the legal aliens in this state, I applaud you for your participation to our community by doing what needed to be be done and being here legally.

Jonathan said...

I believe that we measure the greatness of a country or state by the ways in which the citizens and governments treat outsiders, particularly immigrants. For as long as people have lived on Planet Earth, they have always been migrating to lands away from their native homes. The United States is a by-product of immigrants who left their homes in search of something different. The same Latino immigrants that so many people seem to hate (for whatever unfounded reason) are descendants of Spanish-speaking Latinos who settled in many parts of the North American continent, well before European travelers set foot in a land first occupied by the Native American peoples long before anyone else. Xenophobia among citizens in our state and country are nothing new, it has always existed, albeit in more subdued and indirect ways in today's society. The mass exodus of Latino and other immigrants back to their countries because of a bad economy here in North Carolina and elsewhere is not good for any of us, whether we agree or not. The migrant workers and laborers have jolted the economy, because they spend money at local businesses, patronize area restaurants, acquire things such as cars and appliances, and help keep the less-glamorous industries (hog processing plants, poultry producers, tobacco growers, and a few construction jobs) from falling out of business during these hard times, a lot of these jobs are the kinds that many citizens seem to pass over, so to speak, because of the very dangerous conditions and work environments. And by 2050, the United States will finally join the rest of the world as one of the countries where more than one language is recognized as the official language. We can keep on fighting the change, but it's really hard to beat a trend that's been happening since the beginning of time!

Anonymous said...

As long as we are talking numbers -

In the 15 years from 1994 to 2009, the number of immigrants held in detention pending a judicial decision about their legal right to remain in the United States increased nearly 400 percent. For the 2009 fiscal year, ICE has budgeted enough money to detain 33,400 people on any given night and more than 400,000 people over the course of the year. The population of immigration detainees includes adults, thousands of “unaccompanied” children, and whole families confined together. And those numbers don't reflect those currently in detention.

These men, women, and children are held in mostly privately run for profit facilities contracted by the federal government. Many of the conditions range from grossly inadequete to dangerously unsafe. They are held for many months and even years before being sent packing back to their homland.

Since the years that President Bush criminalized illegal entry into the US the government has spent billions detaining and deporting all these dangerous "criminals" and as evident by the posts on this blog it really hasn't stemmed the tide.

So it isn't as easy as pulling a bus up to a neighborhood and yelling get in and taking a swift trip to Mexico.

Somebody has to pay for this, and that somebody would be you.

Personally, I would like to see the ICE use their vast resources into tracking down and deporting dangerous felons. Unfortunately, with the current uninformed citizenry, oh and the lobbiests from those prison industries, I'm afraid it is not going to happen any time soon.

Anonymous said...

What got me was the 27,000 homes illegals buit as being a postive! Do we not have able bodies people on welfare that could be told, work w/builders to build homes or no more welfare, free rent and food? We do not need illegals, we have and always had enough welfare people to get any job done. At least that way we can be sure to get taxes from the money they make even if it is refunded at the end of the tax year. We also have inmates who can do some of this work as well. Were are the great minds of our state and country? Obviously in the pockets of lobbiests.

Caped Crusader said...

I am sorry to inform you that all you have done with your entry is show your ignorance.

That means less than nothing coming from any "Anonymous" nobody, especially one who can't manage to squeeze even the slightest modicum of substance into a post as long as yours.


Many Hispanic and Latino people are "white" and these are not racial designations, rather ethnic and national in nature.

Wow, thanks for that, Captain Obvious. Speaking of ignorance, do you really think that means anything to these people? You think that makes any difference to the kind who espouse this hatred and blind nationalism? Get a clue. White people from Latinp/Hispanic countries are not "white" in their minds.


I disagree with you and I understand economics very well.

No, you clearly have zero understanding of economics, as evidenced by your refusal to discuss anything remotely relevant in your response.


Please keep your extremist inflamatory statements to yourself.

Good luck with that, "Anonymous".

Michael said...
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Michael said...

Not only are illegal immigrants working here illegally, a large portion of the money they make is sent back to their country, back to the ones they left behind. We are talking billions of dollars every single year. Money that is not being spent in this country, money that could help local businesses and add sales tax revenue, money that is not taxed or money that is not being given to our charities. Illegal immigration is a net drain on this economy, I don't care what subterfuge comes from those who try to divert our attention away from that fact.... they are the ones that condone the breaking of our laws.

Read this article from 2003;
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20030924-2051-us-mexico.html

In that article, Mexican President Vicente Fox, boasts about all the money being sent back to Mexico from the US- Fox says the remittances "are our biggest source of foreign income, bigger than oil, tourism or foreign investment,".

So, the President of Mexico is simply thrilled that over 20 million Mexicans, most are illegals, are basically stealing money and sending it to his country. He also says that the Mexicans here produce more than all the Mexicans in Mexico... read the article. That's great, if you're Mexico. Unfortunately, for our country much of the money Mexicans make here, doesn't stay here, doesn't get spent here. They use our resources, many don't pay taxes and to add insult to injury- they send their illegally made money out of our country. Until last year, the amount of money leaving this country just kept increasing... the more illegal immigrants there are, the more money that gets sent back to Mexico. No wonder Mexico, literally, demands we open our borders, demands we grant amnesty. Of course, Mexico would never grant amnesty to Guatemalans or open their border with Guatemala... most Mexicans absolutely hate Guatemalans. Their border crackdown with Guatemala is brutal and their punishments are far worse than anything we do on our borders. They are hypocrites of the highest order, and they dare lecture us. It's insane for our country, for our citizens to tolerate this anymore. Really.

This Nation allows over 800,000 legal immigrants every single year, that is more than anyother country in the world. We do our part, we cannot continue to absorb so many legal and *illegal* immigrants. Our resources are stretched thin and it's our fellow *citizens* that are hurting. We just simply can't afford to take so many uneducated and unskilled illegal immigrants... we can't.

The articles below are just the tip of the iceberg. It's past time to do the right thing, and the right thing is to enforce the laws of this country. Enforce our laws and protect our borders. Enough is enough.

The Immigrant Gang Plague

TWO LIVES, ONE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER

HIDDEN COST OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION: ID THEFT

Her ATM card, illegal immigrant's face

The secret list of ID theft victims



More info:


TWISTED TIDINGS
http://twisted-tidings.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

Many Hispanic and Latino people are "white" and these are not racial designations, rather ethnic and national in nature.

Wow, thanks for that, Captain Obvious. Speaking of ignorance, do you really think that means anything to these people? You think that makes any difference to the kind who espouse this hatred and blind nationalism? Get a clue. White people from Latinp/Hispanic countries are not "white" in their minds.

Caped Crusader, you really showed your ignorance of Latin American classes in your bold comments above. There is clearly a pretentious "white" class within Latin America, they are the descendants of the Spanish that primarily live in the major (capital) cities. Mexico City, Bogota are just two cities where hubris abounds with those "white" Hispanics who insist on being addressed in the Castillean form of Spanish (and mock norteamericanos who "deign" to speak in a form of Spanish only the lower latinos use).

Besides, the whites in Latin nations refer to themselves as Latino/as, Hispanic is a term only of consequence in the US>

Anonymous said...

Pick Your Poison

...Under a Justice Department program that relies on plea deals, most are charged with misdemeanors like improper entry...

...Federal prosecutions of immigration crimes nearly doubled in the last fiscal year, reaching more than 70,000 immigration cases in the 2008 fiscal year, according to federal data compiled by a Syracuse University research group. The emphasis, many federal judges and prosecutors say, has siphoned resources from other crimes, eroded morale among federal lawyers and overloaded the federal court system. Many of those other crimes, including gun trafficking, organized crime and the increasingly violent drug trade, are now routinely referred to state and county officials, who say they often lack the finances or authority to prosecute them effectively...

...“Every time the government puts a lot of resources on one thing, they’re going to take away from another,” he added...

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20090112/ZNYT02/901123014/1141/SPORTS?Title=Push_on_Immigration_Crimes_Is_Said_to_Shift_Focus

Anonymous said...

I see illegals sending as much as $5000 dollars at a at Bi-lo's western union all the time. How can this money be circulated here rather than go to Mexico? If they are sending that much out of the COUNTRY it may be why we have no paper money circulating. I saw a woman have $5000 dollars she was sending through western UNION to somebody somewhere. How did she get all that money is the first question. And second where is that money really going to MEXICO ..... or somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

Look if that women sends $5000 dollars to Mexico how is that money circulating in our economy and how about the taxes to the STATE and City and County from that BYE bYE taxes .

Anonymous said...

I was in the Presbyterian Hospital around CHRISTMAS and I noticed that half the emergencey room was illegals coming there for minimuim treatment , coughs , flu and normal things with the weather. After my wife was there for chest pains , after four hours, we got the bill within a week $5000 dollars. I shit and we wasnt sure our insurnace would pay for this really. OKAY theHospital told me because we have huge amounts of illegals not paying fopr service is the reason for $5000 dollars. They said they pass the cost onto all insurance for illegals . I was shocked to here this and thought OH MY GOD isnt there a way to have a city income tax to pay for this but dont COST SHIFT on me or anyone else . after a while companies will stop coming here because they dont want their Health care going through the roof.

Anonymous said...

When it comes to Health care you can lose your job if you start using your insurnace up and costing the company their bottom line. I think we need the Government to pitch in on this and let the hospital write all this off or socialize the INSURANCE companies.

Anonymous said...

I told Presbyterian to write this cost off or cost shift this to UNCLE SAM or lets create a MEXICAN hospital with Hispanic Doctors and such to treat these kind and pay what they can and write the rest off as PRO BONO. They should get some care and treatment of some kind. Let me tell all of you this high cost to COMPANIES could chase them out of here and finish off the Carolina's as far as getting companies to land here.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

anon 12:36,38,47,49,54,56,&58. Apparently you have the time to sit around and PLAY with your computer making up anonymous people in which to have a conversation with, spouting xenophobic ideas in your make believe little world. But the rest of us live in the real one.

And while your insights on the crisis of immigration are stunning, quaint really, those of us that see it for the complex economic, societal, criminal justice issue that it is will be forced to take another approach.

We will be forced to remember how much these "git tuff" feel good policies of deporting every last illegal immigrant in the country will cost.

As much as we would like too we simply can't afford to placate your simple little desires. Nor can we afford to seal the border so tightly that it will forever stop illegals from coming.

There are some real world solutions like spending money on things that actually work and then there are your solutions. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you did not offer any.

Arizona Texan said...

4:21 & 4:23, etc -

A 19% ratio of Hispanic students in Charlotte schools does NOT mean that 19% of students are children of illegals. 430 Hispanic students in a school does NOT mean that all 430 are on free/reduced lunches.

You used the low number of H1 visas issued annually as a reference for how many Hispanics are here illegally, but you failed to consider the number of citizens of Hispanic descent who were born and raised in the US, whose parents were born and raised in the US, whose grandparents were born and raised in the US.

My spouse's mother is white, his father is Hispanic. His parents and grandparents were born in this country. He is of Hispanic descent even thought he has a "white" name and doesn't speak a word of Spanish. He has a college degree in engineering, works, and pays taxes. If we had children in Charlotte schools, they would be Hispanic. They wouldn't qualify for free lunches, and they certainly wouldn't be illegal.

We have recently moved to Charlotte from the southwestern part of the country. Since we lived in major cities prior to coming here (Phoenix, Arizona and San Antonio, Texas), we have seen our share of illegal immigrants but a greater share of successful, educated, contributing Hispanics who are 2nd, 3rd generation American citizens who are holding positions as business and civic leaders.

My spouse was hesitant to move here because he "looks" Hispanic and he was concerned that the people here would be prejudiced, would assume he was illegal, didn't speak english, etc. Your posts only serve to reinforce that his concern wasn't unfounded.

I am appalled by the number of folks in Charlotte, one of the top 20 cities in the US with well-educated residents, who assume that Hispanic = illegal. It does not.

As far as the remainder of your posts, I generally agree that a system taking in $ from a limited number of households cannot support a larger number of households -- it's unsustainable. Working illegal immigrants without criminal backgrounds should be given the opportunity to get on a payment plan for back taxes, moratorium on services until those taxes are paid, and a road to citizenship. Those not working, with criminal backgrounds, or households using services that far exceed what would be collected in back taxes should be sent back to their home country.

Anonymous said...

7:58,

You wrote that there are people on welfare willing to build homes and do other jobs that the hispanic workforce currently does.

Yet none of the (black) people on welfare ever did it before the influx of hispanic workers, did they?

Anonymous said...

Border Patrol is still hiring...

Michael said...

Franco,

Are you ever going to do some actual research, yourself?

mgb1unc1 said...

I would be more than happy to contribute and/or help you. If need be, tell your bosses I'd be more than happy to just write your posts for you. You'll get more readers and the articles will actually be factual and truthful... not that it matters so much to you or the Observer.

Michael said...

Look, Franco- a story about *legal* immigration.
Immigrant's dream is being American
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/local/story/815719.html




TWISTED TIDINGS
http://twisted-tidings.blogspot.com/

britney said...

nice post and thanks for sharing...
___________________
Britney
Entertainment at one stop

~*~ Karen ~*~ said...

Thank you all for your facts, insight, and links. I saw stands for "Drop the i-word" at a few fall festivals in the triad this month (10-2011), which prompted my search for NC illegal immigration stats. This i-word campaign is straight out of politics: If you [question my immigration status] you're a prejudice racist. Really?!

I appreciate how this topic has stayed an over-all intellectual debate despite how heated it is. It does seem a little CNN that there are no pro-il's. I'm also surprised that there are so many statistics for unregistered people. Thank you for posting this :-)